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Change Fanfic Recommendations to Fanwork Recommendations?

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Butterfinger Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
#1: Feb 28th 2013 at 2:58:11 PM

I saw this comment from Fighteer on Ask The Tropers regarding where to put Let's Play entries:

Let's put it this way. Better to lump 'em under fanfics than make a new subpage that will just have to be merged when we discover that it's an exact duplicate. If you think we should change fanfic recs to fanwork recs, great, pop over to the forums and suggest it.

Well, here I am suggesting it! I think it would be a great idea to rename it to Fanworks! As it is, Fanfic Recommendations is almost entirely Exactly What It Says on the Tin, which makes sense, but the downside to that is that there aren't as many recommendations for fan videos or fan comics or other types of fanworks. I personally love coming across amazing fan videos, and I think the rename would encourage people to recommend more works from a fandom outside of just fanfiction.

Any thoughts on the matter?

edited 28th Feb '13 2:58:45 PM by Butterfinger

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TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#2: Feb 28th 2013 at 3:44:29 PM

Part of the problem is that namespacing on the wiki is kind of awkward on that account. Currently, a written fan work will go under the FanFic/ namespace, while an online fan comic is normally assigned to Webcomic/ for sorting. (I don't know about paper fan comics, as those aren't typically published widely enough to be found by most tropers.) Let's Play is its own namespace, and typically is used to cover specific personalities who do multiple ones, similar to the Music/ namespace.

Ultimately, the proposed idea comes with a disconnect between "how things are sorted on the rec pages" and "how things are sorted elsewhere on the wiki". But then again, the fanfic rec pages have always been a bit of an awkward thing to have, as the content policy problems illustrated.

If it were me, I'd try and shift the whole affair to our recommendations forum, since that forum currently sees very little use, and it would be much simpler to keep an eye on. Of course, then we run into the problem of all the tropers who mysteriously have a phobia of fora, so that's an issue too. So there aren't a lot of good options here...

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#3: Feb 28th 2013 at 6:36:56 PM

Not sure how our namespacing of works has anything to do with Fanfic Recommendations...

I would be fine with merging other forms of fan works into Fanfic Recs. I would be fine with changing the name of the main page, if people thought it necessary for clarity. I would not, however, support changing the FanficRecs/ namespace, because that would be a whole lot of work for negligible gain. (Not to mention that we're still working on the namespaces for work and creator pages, which are definitely more central to the wiki's mission.)

edited 28th Feb '13 6:37:33 PM by Nocturna

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4: Feb 28th 2013 at 7:32:08 PM

I recognize the amount of labor involved, which is why I suggested using Fanfic Recs/ for all fan works until/unless we come up with a better place to collect them.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5: Feb 28th 2013 at 8:24:19 PM

Fanfic recs are already tangential to the wiki and arguably redundant to reviews. I can't imagine why we'd want to spend a lot of work fiddling around with a marginal change when the current system is working fine.

Butterfinger Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
#6: Feb 28th 2013 at 10:33:28 PM

Currently, a written fan work will go under the Fan Fic/ namespace, while an online fan comic is normally assigned to Webcomic/ for sorting. (I don't know about paper fan comics, as those aren't typically published widely enough to be found by most tropers.) Let's Play is its own namespace, and typically is used to cover specific personalities who do multiple ones, similar to the Music/ namespace.

What I had in mind doesn't require moving around namespaces for works. I'm specifically thinking about the integration of other fanworks into the recommendations page. If there was a page for the work, you could just link the work page to the recommendation, just like how fanfic work pages for recommended works are usually dealt with. Besides, I was under the impression that just because a fanwork has a page, it's not necessarily a recommendation.

Looking at the Let's Play list of recommendations in particular... well, frankly it looks very cluttered. Moving them to fanfic recs could be beneficial because then you could put all the comments about quality under reviews. I did see an argument elsewhere that people like to look for LetsPlays specifically by person, and that is how entries are organized at the moment.

What if each entry on the Let's Play page recommendation list was listed by LPer, followed by the recommended LPs with a link to the video? Specific Let's Play entries for games could go under a new folder in the work's recommendation section. Or maybe LPers for their videos in general could be recommended on the main Let's Play page, while specific LPs for the specific work could go on the rec page?

I would be fine with merging other forms of fan works into Fanfic Recs. I would be fine with changing the name of the main page, if people thought it necessary for clarity. I would not, however, support changing the Fanfic Recs/ namespace, because that would be a whole lot of work for negligible gain. (Not to mention that we're still working on the namespaces for work and creator pages, which are definitely more central to the wiki's mission.)

Hmm... yeah, I understand holding off on changing the Fanfic Recs/ namespace. Work and creator pages should definitely take precedence. Seeing fanfic recs as the section name on the workpage might discourage additions of other fanworks, though...

I suppose if it's possible, the name of Fanfic Recs should be changed to Fanwork Recs, and then additional descriptions and guidelines for other fanworks should be added. That way, if someone wanted to know where to recommend a fanwork that's not fanfiction, they can find Fanwork Recs through the search function and know that they can do so through the Fanfic Rec page, even if the name seems exclusive.

As of right now, recommendations of non-fanfic works are posted in one of the tropes on the Fan Works namespace. Speaking of which, WHOA, I actually just discovered the Fan Works namespace! I'm feeling sort of dumb for not even knowing this existed. From a skimming the various linked tropes, some pages seem okay while others... not so much. I don't have much patience to look closely at each category of fanwork right now though, so maybe tomorrow.

edited 28th Feb '13 10:33:54 PM by Butterfinger

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videogmer314 from that one place Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#7: Feb 28th 2013 at 11:50:13 PM

[up] The FanWorks/ namespace is for indexes of fan works based on a particular franchise.

Telcontar In uffish thought from England Since: Feb, 2012
In uffish thought
#8: Mar 1st 2013 at 12:59:35 AM

Technically, many fan videos are fiction created by fans, so they should fit under Fanfic Recs/, though ones which are dramatic readings or other amateur dramatisations might not. I don't see why it can't be a catch-all, though; a big reason there are mostly written works is because there are just more written fan works in general.

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
Butterfinger Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
#9: Mar 1st 2013 at 6:56:24 AM

[up][up]Oh, whoops, I didn't mean namespace. I think index is what I meant. The page I linked goes to types of fanworks, and some of them seem to collect recommendations of fanworks. For example, Fan Film contains "notable examples" as well as regular examples. And Fan Vid... is sort of a mess, honestly.

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Butterfinger Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
#10: Mar 9th 2013 at 7:06:46 PM

Hmm... so is there any interest in making these changes to fanfic recs? Not the re-indexing, just changing the page so you could recommend different types of fan media.

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Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#11: Mar 9th 2013 at 7:30:21 PM

So just to be clear, you want to turn the current fanfic template:

Proof that the remaining 10% is worth dying for here.

These are recommendations made by Tropers for [[work]] fanfics, all of which have to be signed to stay on the page. Feel free to add a fanfic of your own to the list, but remember to use the template found here.

Do warn when a fanfic may head into non-canon territory. Some people just don't like it, and as we all know, Shipping is Serious Business. Please also be aware that, due to recent content policy changes, works that are Porn Without Plot may not be linked to, including any work that is hosted on a certain meme.

You can also add to the current recommendations if you want. Refrain from posting Conversation In The Main Page though; that goes in the discussion page.

Into this? (changes bolded)

Proof that the remaining 10% is worth dying for here.

These are recommendations made by Tropers for [[work]] fan works, all of which have to be signed to stay on the page. Feel free to add a fan work of your own to the list, but remember to use the template found here.

Do warn when a fan work may head into non-canon territory. Some people just don't like it, and as we all know, Shipping is Serious Business. Please also be aware that, due to recent content policy changes, works that are Porn Without Plot may not be linked to, including any work that is hosted on a certain meme.

You can also add to the current recommendations if you want. Refrain from posting Conversation In The Main Page though; that goes in the discussion page.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Butterfinger Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
#12: Mar 9th 2013 at 8:06:45 PM

Yeah, pretty much. And then Fan Work trope pages such as Let's Play and Fan Vid could be cleaned up, with a note or something saying that recommendations of works can go on the rec page rather than the trope page. Although with Let's Play, I still think it would be a good idea to alphabetize by creator and organize the examples already there, and then remove comments. However, I'm not sure if that would go outside the typical clean-up of examples, or if something would be lost in the process, so I'm don't mind holding off on that for now.

For the fanfic rec pages themselves, I was thinking that another folder called "Other Fan Works" or something similar could be used for non-fanfic works. For example, in the Puella Magi Madoka Magica page, there's an amv listed under general fics, and it would be moved to the new folder with the change.

Also, are there any tropes in the Fan Work trope index that would be unwise to include in fan work recommendations? I've been mostly advocating the inclusion of Let's Play and Fan Vid, but I'm not quite sure how one would recommend Fan Art...

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