A friend of mine decided to (maybe) start a new Pathfinder game. So I got myself immersed in the body of rules to create a nice character. It's been three days and I'm finally seeing the light of day!
I'm in love with the Alchemist, but it bugs me. It's a wonderful Jack of All Trades, but you have to specialize in order to do anything useful, and leave things on the side. How frustrating!
Here's how I see the problem: I'd like to play with poison. Unfortunately, poison doesn't strike me as really good in Pathfinder, being very expensive for something that you can resist with a simple Fortitude check. Worse, Sticky Poison is a really good discovery... if you are ready to go in direct melee, in which case you'll probably kill the opponent with blunt force before poison can be of any effect. Well, that's just sad, I'll stay with Stink bomb in that case.
Bombs, precisely. I'd love to play a mad bomber, but I'm surprised there is little to support that path choice. There's no alternate class feature to make better bombs, and while there's a ton of bomb discoveries, most of them leave me lukewarm at best. And you'll need a big chunk of "mandatory" discoveries as well (like 'infusion') to get your character together, limiting further your choices. There's no PrC even...
And while mutagen/Master Chemist is the favorite way for most people I've talked to, I don't really like it. I like the flavor of it, and there's plenty of alternates and discovery to help it further, but I don't know... it feels like a lot of effort to be at the same fighting level as a Barbarian or Monk. It looks awesome the first few time you transform, I'll admit it, but still, not a huge fan.
So I guess I'll be making a straight Alchemist, no alternate features, no PrC, full bombs and alchemical items shenanigans, with a dab of poison. The good news is, Half-orcs are finally playable for something other than Barbarians (thanks for that, Paizo, you have no idea how that frustrated me in 3.5!), since they have an ability to boost bombs damage. The bad news is, there's too many feats and discoveries that I want, so I'm struggling to make a good build without too many holes in it. The future DM showed me a feat that gives scent to half-orcs. Scent! How am I supposed to resist this ?!
Anyone here has played an Alchemist before and have tips to share?
edited 23rd Nov '13 6:44:24 AM by Ninjaxenomorph
Me and my friend's collaborative webcomic: Forged MenThe Mindchemist, too. Increase damage and save D Cs.
Me and my friend's collaborative webcomic: Forged MenThere's not much in the Mindchemist set that interests me. Cognatogens are good in this build, but I could get it for a discovery (or a feat, with Extra Discovery), and still get Mutagens and poison use on the side. The rest isn't really worth it IMO.
Also, is it me or is the human favored class option really good? Starting at level 4, one new formula per level, that's pretty insane!
Don't take that. You can buy scrolls/formulas and scribe them.
Me and my friend's collaborative webcomic: Forged Men... or you can just spend the money, and have HP or skill points, which are much harder to buy.
edited 24th Nov '13 8:02:04 PM by Ninjaxenomorph
Me and my friend's collaborative webcomic: Forged MenSo, my friend is starting up a Kingmaker campaign, and I've decided to branch out from my usual classes and play a Ranger.
So, how do I Ranger? I've been looking up some guides, and Treantmonk's Ranger guide is kinda awesome and all, but it only covers the core rulebook. I'm extremely intrigued by the Switch Hitter build (archery until the enemy closes, and then switch into melee with a Falchion), as I feel it actually does fit and work a little bit better than pure archery or (ugh) two-weapon fighting, but once more, it's something I've never done before, and I was originally looking to go full archery. Unfortunately, it seems Fighter is a better archer (which I should have known anyway, Pathfinder made Fighters the undisputed kings of weapon-focused combat and gave all other combat classes little niches that let them branch out), but I'm really looking at Ranger due to wanting to have that "friend of the forest" feel (or something).
I should note that a caveat to the campaign is that you have to play an "outcast" race, so I chose half-orc because if I'm branching out, I may as well go full bore.
Also, I apologize if that's an incoherent rant.
If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.One of my players uses an archery-focused half orc. The way he plays, it's very much about a volley of high-damage arrows from a composite longbow, with Gravity Bow being a pretty central component. He also picked Hunting Companions over having an animal companion, which means he can give everyone else a decent buff if the party is fighting his favored enemy. I think the ranger spells get kinda overlooked. They can actually contribute pretty constructively to a fight. Sure, it's not 100% optimised, but where's the fun in that anyway?
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.Gravity Bow, Arrow Explosion, and Entangle are some of the greatest 1st level spells in existence. I am most likely going to go with an animal companion instead of the Hunting Companions, though I may take a Bird instead of what everyone says to take for flavor (hawks can scout for me and I won't strictly speaking need something to tank for me).
If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.Thanks for those who directed me to the Advanced Class Guide playtest. Going to try to run a few skirmishes shortly after Thanksgiving for players to see what's happening. I already know one player is going to try to do ALL THE THINGS as an investigator, and another player that is going to twink out as hard as he can with arcanist. That's all fine; part of the purpose of a playtest is to see what breaks and what doesn't hold weight.
For the alchemist issue... haven't played one myself, but I'm running a game where one of the players is playing what he's been calling bomb-and-buff - he mostly hangs back and lets his bombs do the talking, and his extracts are primarily focused on giving out fun bonuses (and the occasional shot of healing). He's not the primary damage dealer, but he's chipping at foes while acting as support for his allies. The two discoveries (which I forget the names of at the moment; they're in APG) that he heavily relies on are the ability to designate safe squares for his bombs (so he can throw into melee without harming allies) and the ability to use extracts on others (for the buffing). He's also looking into a discovery that can make squares unusable temporarily, for better crowd control.
One interesting thing that he's had fun with regarding the mutagen is using it offensively - he doesn't like hulking out (as he's a gnome with pitiful physical stats other than his Constitution), but he took quick note of the fact that non-alchemists take heavy penalties if they take an alchemist's mutagen. And as he pointed out, the class comes with Throw Anything as a feat - he's able to just throw the extract down someone's gullet. Now, he usually saves this maneuver for larger foes, preferably ones with a poor Fortitutde save. But it's a remarkably effective maneuver, if a bit unorthodox. He's also started discussing how to work with the party's monk, who has been furiously minmaxing for various combat maneuvers - I think they're soon going to start having the monk hold down foes while the alchemist doses them with poison and mutagen to take them out of commission.
As for rangers... wish I could help. I haven't played one since AD&D 2nd, so I'm really out of touch with what they've done with the class. I may give one a whirl if I get another chance to make a character in the near future; that would require someone that isn't me running a campaign that I could join.
Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.Keep note that the Arcanist is changing in the next iteration of the Playtest. Casting will stay the same, though. And... I never thought of that use for Mutagen...
Me and my friend's collaborative webcomic: Forged MenBased on my first look at arcanist, I think that changing most of it but keeping the casting works very well. I don't think the fluff works well together, but the way the casting works feels like what I always wanted out of sorceror.
As for the mutagen as an attack... it's a surprisingly potent move, particularly as the DC on the mutagen scales with level (well, an one-half the alchemist level, so at least keeping pace with fast-growth Fortitude saves and outpacing slow-growth Fort saves), and failing the save makes the victim nauseated for an hour - that's pretty much "you're now out of the fight" right there. There are a couple of caveats to that, though. One is that nothing happens on a successful save - All Or Nothing attacks are always dangerous (I usually call them Death Or Glory, because, well, it always seems like those are the only two options). Another is that having even a single level of alchemist completely immunizes you to the effect - alchemists instead are affected as if it was their own mutagen (and they can further take their own mutagen afterwards if they prefer a different mutagenic effect instead). Finally, of course, is that you can only have one mutagen prepared at a time - it takes a full hour to prepare another, so you only have one shot at using it in such a fashion. That said, for a more bomb-oriented alchemist (or one that prefers to use extracts for metamorphosis instead, like the Beastmorph line), it's a remarkably useful trick to pull out of your hat.
Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.Thanks everyone for the Alchemist tips. I'd say, I've never thought about Mutagens like that... Knowing my friend, that's the kind of things he will only allow once, but it could save the day. I'll keep that ace in the hole for now.
So, I've decided to use my favorite method for complicated character building: I'll do a checklist of everything I want, feats, discoveries and all. And then, I'll cut corners and hammer all of that until it fits in a 20-level build and doesn't completely sucks for the majority of it. Sounds like fun!
Oh thank God I'm not the only one who does that! I did that with this Ranger I'm putting together yesterday. Took me five hours X(
Now I know why I don't play things more complicated than Fighters, Paladins, Sorcerers, and Inquisitors.
If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.It's worth noting that the effects for non-alchemists who consume a mutagen are listed in the base description for mutagens in the Advanced Players Guide (along with the appropriate Fortitude DC - 10 plus the Intelligence bonus of the alchemist plus 1/2 their alchemist level). Granted, the way it's written, it was originally intended as a way to keep the alchemist from passing the mutagen on to the party fighter or barbarian to abuse in battle. But you know how it goes - list a terrible effect for doing something in the book, and some sneaky/clever player is going to figure out a way to actually do it to their foes instead.
As I'm the GM in the campaign where the "poison foes with mutagen" idea first came up, I decided to treat it as a poison that must be ingested (the rules don't give any effect for splash, injected, or inhaled), so actually getting someone affected by it is either going to require a clever trick (such as sleight of hand to replace a potion vial with the mutagen) or a challenging called shot (-10 to the roll, but against touch AC - like I said, usually saved for larger targets). Given how tricky it is to actually work, I'm willing to let the party alchemist keep doing it - if he's clever and lucky enough to get it to work that many times, he probably deserves to have it work that much.
Also, he hasn't yet tried the maneuver of slathering himself with mutagen and letting things bite him. Given that he'd take bite damage that way, I'd at least let him poison multiple foes that way, if he wants to take that many hits.
Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.So, looking for a bit of GM advice here.
Generally I'm really happy with my players, but I'm having two big problems:
1) My players expressed the desire for a map, but I have no idea how to draw one. Anyone got any recommendations?
2) I'm having a bit of trouble with my setting. I like to run things with a lot of historical flavour, but over time things have geared more and more towards standard fantasy, and I feel like the setting is losing a lot of its uniqueness. How do you deal with that kind of 'feature creep'?
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
1) If you can get a game mat, maps are never a problem. No matter how terrible one is at drawing them.
2) Can you elaborate how PF has drifted towards 'standard fantasy'? Because I thought it was ALWAYS 'standard fantasy'. If anything, new classes HELP that, like samurai/ninja/cavalier.
Me and my friend's collaborative webcomic: Forged MenI'm not running the game in the Pathfinder setting, I'm running a homebrew (and, at that, an online game.) And what I mean by 'standard fantasy' is drifting from something with kinda historical overtones to becoming more sword & sorcery type stuff, with an increased abundance of magic to 'mundane' items.
edited 4th Dec '13 11:27:28 AM by math792d
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.Again, samurai/ninja/cavalier. PF was always intended for sword and sorcery, and, sadly, coming from the loins of 3.5 means magic items are a necessary feature. Importantly, it closes the gap of martials and casters. Books like Ultimate Equipment help, though.
Me and my friend's collaborative webcomic: Forged Men

Here's the direct link.
You'll have to go through the same steps as if you're purchasing purchasing something, IIRC.