Feminist Coven

I consider myself a feminist, but I'm not good at making decent arguments so I mostly just keep my trap shut.

Same here. Will say this, though: I'm not too keen on the whole acting like dudes don't have problems that need to be dealt with mindset, because they do and laughing them off just reinforces the expectation that men are supposed to be BIG AND STOIC AND NOT CRY GRARGH. Men are people too, guys.

Anyway, hi. :)

edited 31st Dec '13 2:54:00 PM by MobileLeprechaun

make it through this year if it kills you yet | 2001-2019

Another feminist who can't word things well! Whee~

dead devotion

Any sensible feminist acknowledges that men have unique issues too, and any compassionate feminist cares about solving them.

The trick is that when feminists do tackle men's issues, they don't necessarily do it as feminists. That is, they don't say "Yo, feminist over here, tackling men's issues!" It's not right when men try to co-opt our efforts and our discussions, and it wouldn't be right for us to do it to them either.

Stuff what I do.

True, and good point. You're way better at wording than I am. :P

make it through this year if it kills you yet | 2001-2019

Blarg, forgot to put this on watchlist.

Yeah, feminists do generally acknowledge that men face issues too. Thing is that they generally come from the exact same social attitudes/norms that are being fought by feminists. All I've ever seen from anyone who claims to be a men's rights activist, unfortunately, is dismissal of feminism and Oppression Olympics™.

I'm not sure I share that sentiment. Since feminism is an idea/ideal/ideology/philosophy nobody can "own" it. If you follow and agree with feminism, you pretty much are a feminist. No matter if you're a woman, a man, an intersexual or a robot.

Feminism (or at least some feminisms) aims to deconstruct the barriers and artificial differences between men and women. Insisting that one set of people cannot be feminists due to their set of genitals seems rather counterproductive if not hypocritical to me.

Did someone mention feminists that can't word arguments for shit?

Because you know, I'm here.

Oh really when?

I'm more of an equalist, but whatever.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else

I couldn't word arguments either until I began studying Gender Studies in university. That helped.

I've taken Women's Studies (granted just one class) and I still can't word arguments

Feminism's pretty rad. I do my best to stand up to the patriarchy :P

So, what's this thread's verdict on Anita Sarkeesian?

"Monsters are tragic beings. They are born too tall, too strong, too heavy. They are not evil by choice. That is their tragedy."

Does advocating for women's rights, gender equality, and the like within the framework of a particular religion count as "feminism", even if may clash with Western values-based feminism? If so... Add another a male supporter of feminism to the list, this time a generally-moderate-on-the-liberal-vs-conservative-spectrum Saudi Arabian (I know, must be shocking to some of you).

Now, two questions that have been bugging me:

1. "Male feminist" vs. "pro-feminist male": What are the arguments for and against each of them, and where do we as TVT's feminist/pro-feminist community stand on the issue? And also, what's the deal with differentiating "pro-feminist" from "profeminist"? What significance does the hyphen have?

2. Why is it that every feminist advocacy group that I've looked up so far seems to be dedicated to a single "strain" of feminism (e.g. pro-life, sex-positive, liberal)? Are there none that are more comprehensive in scope — like, a single group that is pro-life feminist, sex-positive feminist, and liberal feminist?

<looks up unfamiliar name> ... Is she affiliated with TV Tropes, or simply One Of Us?

edited 10th Jan '14 7:17:29 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Anita Sarkeesian is a debate I don't ever want to get into. I will say that nobody deserves threats like she gets, though.

Marq: She uses TVT as a resource, but she is not affiliated with us. As for the hyphen thing, there is no difference; it's just personal formatting preference.

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.

Ah. That explains why she's using TVT-iconic names for tropes, then.

Well, apparently sections of the wider feminist movement thinks otherwise.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Profeminists are professional feminists.

Depends on who you ask. No one has trademarked feminism as of yet. And all feminists operate within a certain framework.

"Male feminist" vs. "pro-feminist male": Since I'm of the opinion that male and female should not matter at all, simply feminist (who happens to be male) would be preferable.

edited 10th Jan '14 1:28:20 PM by Antiteilchen

I feel like I need to clarify something here.

I have no problem with men calling themselves feminists. Quite the opposite. However, some men consider themselves allies, but not feminist themselves not because they are hostile to the term, but because they are conscientious of the potential for well-meaning men to hijack the women's movement away from the women. They go by "ally" instead of "feminist" to remind themselves that the movement isn't about them.

Stuff what I do.

I personally dislike the term "ally" for any sort of social justice movement. To me it brings an association of outright war >_>

But it is an outright war (albeit a primarily political one), with the enemy being all who support misogyny in particular and gender discrimination in general.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I never got the ally thing to be honest. I'm a man and I consider myself a feminist and can't quite get the hijacking the movement thing. I'm a white heterosexual man, I own America already.

Oh really when?

I suppose there is nothing wrong with it if they choose not to (men calling themselves allies rather then feminist) but its a political stance not a statement of being female in itself (like with LGBTQ rights you would say you are an ally if you were straight and cis and supported them (and you wanted to make a definitive statement you did) because, all of them mean something specific, and you could be a member of one of the groups but not say be involved in the politics of it), but feminism is ideological rather then another sort of category (if that makes sense)

It makes a lot of sense, actually.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."

Okay good.

There is a minority but vocal subset of feminists who do not believe men should be part of the movement. A smaller minority don't even want men as allies.

A brighter future for a darker age.