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Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#301: Jun 4th 2013 at 11:47:04 AM

They just assume its the same year.

The couple has tried to work around it by saying just the years instead of the months.

Yeah. I need to move out of this shit hole...

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#302: Jun 4th 2013 at 12:53:50 PM

[up]That's so sad it's kind of funny.

Because I agree with Karalora that telling a girl "Good job not aborting that innocent baby, you filthy whore" just doesn't cut it.

I admit that's a tough sell. But it's one of those 'love the sinner hate the sin' things, the same with any other vice.

edited 4th Jun '13 12:54:21 PM by joeyjojo

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Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#303: Jun 4th 2013 at 1:25:29 PM

[up] How do you even know its a sin and who the hells place is it for you to judge?

There isn't a tough sell to minding your own damn business and respecting others.

That young mother could have been a victim of rape for all you know.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Karalora Since: Jan, 2001
#304: Jun 4th 2013 at 1:46:17 PM

Let's not dive into a debate about the morality of abortion. It never ends well and I think it might have been put on the Forbidden Topic List.

The difficulties of being a single mother (or even a partnered mother under many circumstances) should provide all the fodder we need to keep this thread going.

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#305: Jun 4th 2013 at 1:57:21 PM

That, and as was discussed, pro-life never seems to provide any solutions to not having an unwanted baby except 'don't have sex'. How about better education on and availability of effective birth-control methods, so women don't get unwantedly pregnant so much in the first place? How about better support for parents so if she does get pregnant, it's less likely to mess up her whole life and she is less likely to want/need an abortion? But as discussed, that would involve destigmatizing the idea of wanting sex but not children.

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#306: Jun 4th 2013 at 1:58:58 PM

No one said anything about abortion.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#307: Jun 4th 2013 at 2:04:07 PM

The topic currently is not abortion. It's about the social ramifications of having a child out of wedlock. This is a separate issue from abortion and one that is entirely allowed for discussion.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#308: Jun 4th 2013 at 2:08:23 PM

See, that's the thing. Just looking at a young mother and child you can't say if that child was born out of wedlock or not. That may not even be their biological child. They could be a widow. They could just look far younger than what they are. They could be gay.

You don't know.

Its no ones business. And if you chose to makeit your business it should be from social compassion, not condemnation.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#309: Jun 4th 2013 at 5:34:28 PM

For the record I'm not saying that's my opinion. Just stating the position that the movement typically takes. Saying 'love the sinner hate the sin' holds as much water in practice as 'warring for peace'.

On a related note about women who fall pregnant from rape. 31 states in America currently allow a rapist to sue for custody of any children born from said act.[1][2]. It's quite awfull.

edited 4th Jun '13 10:08:48 PM by joeyjojo

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kzickas Since: Apr, 2009
#310: Jun 4th 2013 at 10:22:02 PM

Yep. And rape doesn't mean you won't have to give child support either. Sending that check every month must be the most fun experinece ever

Edit: Imagine it: you're a poor student so the court decides that the rapist who is financially secure would be in a better position to parent the child. Then you have drop out (with student loans already built up, but with no degree) to keep up with cs payments.

edited 4th Jun '13 10:25:23 PM by kzickas

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#311: Jun 9th 2013 at 9:47:34 AM

In your weekly dose of 'fuck Texas', a man gets away with murdering a woman for refusing to have sex with him. Emphasis mine:

A Bexar County jury on Wednesday acquitted Ezekiel Gilbert of murder in the death of a 23-year-old Craigslist escort.

Gilbert, 30, embraced defense attorneys Bobby Barrera and Roy Barrera Sr. with tears in his eyes after the not guilty verdict was read aloud by state District Judge Mary Román.

Outside the courtroom, Gilbert thanked God, the Barrera family and the jury for being able to “see what wasn't the truth” and for the “second chance.”

Had he been convicted, he could have faced up to life in prison for the slaying of Lenora Ivie Frago who died about seven months after she was shot in the neck and paralyzed on Christmas Eve 2009. Gilbert admitted shooting Frago.

“I sincerely regret the loss of the life of Ms. Frago,” Gilbert said Wednesday. “I've been in a mental prison the past four years of my life. I have nightmares. If I see guns on TV where people are getting killed, I change the channel.”

The verdict came after almost 11 hours of deliberations that stretched over two days. The trial began May 17 but had a long hiatus after a juror unexpectedly had to leave town for a funeral.

During closing arguments Tuesday, Gilbert's defense team conceded the shooting did occur but said the intent wasn't to kill. Gilbert's actions were justified, they argued, because he was trying to retrieve stolen property: the $150 he paid Frago. It became theft when she refused to have sex with him or give the money back, they said.

Gilbert testified earlier Tuesday that he had found Frago's escort ad on Craigslist and believed sex was included in her $150 fee. But instead, Frago walked around his apartment and after about 20 minutes left, saying she had to give the money to her driver, he said.

That driver, the defense contended, was Frago's pimp and her partner in the theft scheme.

The Texas law that allows people to use deadly force to recover property during a nighttime theft was put in place for “law-abiding” citizens, prosecutors Matt Lovell and Jessica Schulze countered. It's not intended for someone trying to force another person into an illegal act such as prostitution, they argued.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#312: Jun 9th 2013 at 9:52:34 AM

[up]Wut. So... refusal of goods and services (read the small print) and/or petty theft is a death-worthy thing, now?

And, my heart bleeds for him. tongue Oh, it so does. So he has bad dreams and can't watch thrillers any more. tongue She struggled for seven months and died because 1) he went nuts and 2) botched the shot. tongue Sorry if I consider the fact that she might just have gone through more hell: distilled. <_<

edited 9th Jun '13 11:23:17 AM by Euodiachloris

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#313: Jun 9th 2013 at 10:03:30 AM

[up]Let's not forget that this was a white guy shooting a Hispanic woman, which kind of explains a lot. Intersectionality, woo!

What's precedent ever done for us?
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#314: Jun 9th 2013 at 8:50:40 PM

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/06/08/no-texas-law-does-not-say-you-can-shoot-an-escort-who-refuses-to-have-sex/

This is a refutation of the idea that it's specifically because of "theft". Seems like there was a case of bad and sensationalist reporting. Apparently he wasn't even shooting directly at her.

Still a stupid argument for a lawyer to make. *shrug*

edited 9th Jun '13 8:51:15 PM by AceofSpades

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#315: Jun 9th 2013 at 8:57:55 PM

[up]Oh, thank goodness! <wipes brow> And, agreed about the attempted defence. Yick. xP

Still... the guy thought that all escorts are automatically prostitutes and blew a gasket? Oh, well done, pea-brain. tongue Even stupider was thinking it was OK to try shooting at a car for it. <_< Isn't that reckless endangerment of practically everybody in the street without just cause? (Tire blow-outs like what he'd intended to cause are dangerous things, in ways even beyond what actually happened.)

Seriously: how did he avoid jail-time?

edited 9th Jun '13 9:20:17 PM by Euodiachloris

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#316: Jun 9th 2013 at 9:09:08 PM

The jury apparently found the argument that he didn't intend to kill her believable. The article says complications killed her months after the event, it having only paralyzed her at first. *shrug* Sadly this sort of reckless endangerment of people in general isn't new, and dicks like this manage to avoid jail time a lot.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#317: Jun 9th 2013 at 9:21:48 PM

So... "Sorry I maimed and killed you. But, it's OK... I didn't really mean to do it?" :|

Somehow, that almost makes the alternative of "I wanted my money back, and, dammit, I'm entitled!" sound better. tongue

edited 9th Jun '13 9:22:12 PM by Euodiachloris

Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#318: Jun 9th 2013 at 9:30:11 PM

According to the article, he avoided jail time because the only thing he was charged with was murder (homicide), and Texas law defines murder as something that occurs with intent to kill or seriously harm. It seems likely the the jury agreed that he didn't intend to harm her, so he therefore wasn't guilty of murder. And whatever else they may have thought about him, as the article says, a jury can't convict someone of something the person wasn't charged with.

Imca (Veteran)
#319: Jun 9th 2013 at 9:33:56 PM

Thats still stupid, why dosen't US law allow a manslaughter conviction even if found inocent of murder?

Edit : A quick browse to wikipedia says they could have, manslaughter is a lesser included offfence to murder. :/

edited 9th Jun '13 9:36:00 PM by Imca

Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#320: Jun 9th 2013 at 9:37:27 PM

They could have if the judge had instructed them in that. She didn't, for whatever reason. So no, the jury couldn't have convicted him of manslaughter.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#321: Jun 9th 2013 at 9:47:53 PM

So basically it seems there needs to always be the option of manslaughter as a lesser charge when tried for murder. Particularly in cases that involve recklessly waving weapons around. Jesus this whole thing is just stupid.

Imca (Veteran)
#322: Jun 9th 2013 at 10:03:27 PM

In murder cases, however, where a convicted defendant may face capital punishment, the United States Supreme Court has held that the court must instruct the jury that they may find the defendant guilty of a lesser included offense such as voluntary manslaughter.[1] The reasoning for this ruling is that jurors, given the options of convicting a less culpable killer or letting him go free, might opt to convict of a more serious crime than the facts warrant. Therefore, they must have at least one option that falls in between these extremes.

Supreme court ruling says they could have, or that judge could be in alot of trouble.

edited 9th Jun '13 10:04:00 PM by Imca

Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#323: Jun 9th 2013 at 10:27:19 PM

Uh... He wasn't up for possible capital punishment. Maximum sentence would have been life in prison.

Imca (Veteran)
#324: Jun 9th 2013 at 10:37:17 PM

I thought that was murder in general...

I really need to go over US law. Sorry.

joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#325: Jun 10th 2013 at 12:17:48 AM

This is a whole bag of awful.

Even accepting the argument the money was 'stolen' from him. He still fucking shot an unarmed woman.

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