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Male Roles Vs. Female Roles in Fiction: Discussion/Analysis/Troperwank

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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#16501: Jan 19th 2022 at 1:14:17 AM

I guess they ignore that she wasn't the first "Christine" he targeted either.

He's not the Phantom (not that I find him particularly sympathetic either tbh). He's Bluebeard.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rynnec Killing is my business Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
Killing is my business
#16502: Jan 19th 2022 at 1:37:03 AM

I get that it's easier to root for the deformed outcast over the perfect pretty people, but didn't the episode imply that most, if not all, of Ratcatcher's victims were a result of Disproportionate Retribution rather than outright malice? There's surely conversation to be had about how media handles deformed characters as antagonists and how they're treated, but ofc CBR focuses on the wrong thing.

"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness." My twitter
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#16503: Jan 19th 2022 at 3:47:18 AM

I think the Static Shock episode Jimmy handled bullying the best.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#16504: Jan 19th 2022 at 4:45:58 AM

[up] Doesn't that episode get some criticism for perpetuating the myth of bully victims becoming school shooters?

Rynnec Killing is my business Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
Killing is my business
#16505: Jan 19th 2022 at 8:29:57 AM

The real issue is they ended it by offhandedly mentioning Jimmy ended up in Juvenile Hall and was never seen again.

Because even school-shooters that backed down don't deserve to have their feelings heard or their mental health properly addressed.

Edited by Rynnec on Jan 19th 2022 at 10:30:29 AM

"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness." My twitter
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#16506: Jan 23rd 2022 at 6:41:37 AM

Youtuber verilybitchi looks at the Feminism of the Spider-Man Films. The video examines the strong and weak points of how the women are portrayed in the films, and how this is better or worse than the comics. Video is 41 minutes.

Akumatizer Since: Sep, 2020
#16507: Apr 11th 2022 at 11:16:45 AM

Any example of female rapists being played as ireedimable monsters? Anime, videogame, tv series, films, etc. Anything.
. I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but there's Mido Saki from Daisuke Chida's 異常者の愛 (romanticed) Ijousha no Ai or An Abnormal Person's Love: Deviant Love.

I feel like if Mido (or is it Midou?) were to get a page here on TV Tropes, she'd probably fall under as a Complete Monster given not only the severity of her crimes and lack of remorse, but also because her very nature strikes terror in the hearts of the main cast. As a female rapist villainess, Mido is rather unique in that not only is she pretty much hated and feared within the canon, but even out of universe despite her moe appearances as a general rule of thumb she seems to be despised perhaps even hated even by the denizens of our world.

Edited by Akumatizer on Apr 12th 2022 at 4:55:07 AM

Darthwyn Ace Pilot from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Ace Pilot
#16508: Apr 12th 2022 at 8:18:31 AM

I will say in regards to the comics writers have milked the bridge that Gwen died at on numerous occasions.

"When I offered to make Norea my third back-up girlfriend she just glared at me and started throwing things at me.." Renee Costa
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#16509: Apr 14th 2022 at 10:27:27 PM

An article on the need for more mother figures in sci-fi.

Maureen Mc Hugh is the author of six books, including the award-winning science fiction novel China Mountain Zhang. Her two most recent books, the short story collections After the Apocalypse and Mothers and Other Monsters, focus heavily on the lives of female characters.
“I thought, ‘You know, I’m not a guy, so maybe I should write some books about women,'” Mc Hugh says in Episode 508 of the Geek’s Guide to the Galaxy podcast. “It was a really conscious decision to not try to write in a tradition—in a voice—that wasn’t mine, and to write more in a voice that came from my own experience.”

Many of the stories explore the relationship between mothers and their children, an element that’s often sidelined in fantasy and science fiction. “Mothers usually live in support of other characters,” Mc Hugh says. “And yet it’s probably the most essential relationship in most people’s lives. It’s the first major relationship. It’s a relationship I think we can never actually look at because it’s almost too close to us.”

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#16510: Apr 22nd 2022 at 7:53:29 AM

A video on masculinity in the Devil May Cry series, as seen through Vergil, Dante and Nero. The video looks at how Vergil embodies old-fashioned views, Dante as a rebel without a cause and how Nero is a mixture of the former two's characteristics.

Video is 22 minutes.

SapphireBlue from California Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#16511: Apr 22nd 2022 at 11:00:05 AM

[up] I like that video! I’ve seen a lot of analysis videos about Devil May Cry, but this isn’t a topic I’ve seen anyone dive into before.

The bit about the character type Dante draws from, and the historical context it comes from, was interesting stuff. It’s not as obvious as Vergil’s samurai deal, so I appreciated it being laid out like that.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#16512: Apr 24th 2022 at 6:38:00 AM

The show Killing Eve has attracted a bit of contention for killing off Villanelle, the villainous deuteragonist who is also gay. Some see it as another case of Bury Your Gays while others see it as no different from killing off other villain protagonists such as Tony Montana from Scarface and Walter While from Breaking Bad.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#16513: Apr 24th 2022 at 9:41:25 AM

I didn't watch Killing Eve but I remember the discourse around it. My impression was that the show was writing itself into a bit of a corner by making 1/2 of its central lesbian couple a stone-cold murderous sociopath. Don't know if that's a apt assessment or not, though.

Edited by Gaon on Apr 24th 2022 at 9:41:59 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#16514: Apr 24th 2022 at 10:35:04 AM

From what I know of it based on things friends have said, that character being a stone-cold murderous psychopath was exactly the appeal, as a lot of lesbians and bi women love relationships with Dating Catwoman and Foe Romantic Subtext dynamics, in contrast to a lot of existing lesbian media that they find overly saccharine. It's part of the popularity of Catradora after all, and one of the complaints about Catra's redemption from the people who weren't opposed to it because they just find her that loathsome, is that Stevenson wasn't brave enough to commit to letting Catra just stay evil but desirable, instead of going for a rushed redemption arc after she basically willfully committed genocide.

The Killing Eve did piss a lot of people off though for being needlessly mean-spirited though as it seems to have happened in the last few minutes, where a random assassin shoots Villanelle right after the couple gets together and feels like a particularly blatant case of Diabolus ex Machina, and thus not comparable to cases like Walter White.

There's been a lot of jokes comparing it to the infamous Superhell ending moment from Supernatural. Speaking of which, it seems as if Castiel's actor Misha Collins recently might've come out as openly bisexual?

Edited by AlleyOop on Apr 24th 2022 at 8:41:37 AM

DeathsApprentice Jaded Techie Fox from The Grim Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Jaded Techie Fox
#16515: Apr 24th 2022 at 11:03:57 AM

One of my friends who watched it thinks that for Killing Eve a tragic ending would have been fine but at the hands of each other, as a reflection of the self-destructiveness of their relationship, and because the show is ultimately about their relationship. The actual tragic ending being as a result of someone else shooting one of them was incredibly jarring and unsatisfying.

Trust you? The only person I can trust is myself.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#16516: Apr 24th 2022 at 3:29:33 PM

I'm always completely bewildered about these discussions on Foe Romance Subtext esque narratives. I just don't quite get the appeal of the desirable psychopath past a certain point. I understand it on a intellectual level (particularly once the explanation is given) but I just don't understand it on a more emotional one. It generally works better for me as well if the setting itself is already satirical and absurd, but not when the story has semi-serious approaches.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
DeathsApprentice Jaded Techie Fox from The Grim Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Jaded Techie Fox
#16517: Apr 24th 2022 at 3:58:38 PM

I definitely didn't get it until a few years ago. And at least for me, usually the appeal of Foe Romance Subtext is that it's entertaining to watch a relationship that's basically the equivalent of a flaming trashpile. [lol] So it helps if the hero in said relationship also has a dark side/is at least a little fucked up too.

Trust you? The only person I can trust is myself.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#16518: May 19th 2022 at 2:55:27 AM

Don't know if this was ever discussed here, but what exactly was it about Korra getting paralyzed that drew criticism of sexism from some?

DeathsApprentice Jaded Techie Fox from The Grim Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Jaded Techie Fox
#16519: May 19th 2022 at 9:01:01 AM

I don't remember exactly but I think it was accusations of it seems like she was being paralyzed to "humble" her for being too much of an "uppity brown girl." At least from what I remember.

Trust you? The only person I can trust is myself.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#16520: May 19th 2022 at 9:23:05 AM

For what I remenber is for many it was a little bit....excesive specially sing Anag who does have to live with the fact his culture is manly gone face in a less traumatized matter. Korra does goes into some serious shit in the course of the series.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#16521: May 19th 2022 at 10:03:41 AM

Yeah, it was pretty graphic compared to anything we saw in the original show, but is that in and of itself enough to warrant accusations of sexism?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#16522: May 19th 2022 at 10:18:59 AM

Kinda? Hard to said because Korra a woman of color goes for so much shit but that can be said on the show being a little bit edgier than the original one, considering the red lotus gang on Tenzin and kick the crap out of him and of course, Pa li fate....or the earth queen.....yeah....

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#16523: May 19th 2022 at 10:24:25 AM

It's not like only the female villains died if that's what you're getting at.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#16524: May 19th 2022 at 10:34:24 AM

[up]Not but it was kinda often very brutal, more some than male villians: Amon and tarrok goes in their own way, unalaq just get erase it, the earth queen get sofocate in very graphic way, Pa li get blown up.

No saying is sexism but I can get the why people said it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Darthwyn Ace Pilot from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Ace Pilot
#16525: May 19th 2022 at 11:42:12 AM

I don't particularly believe Among had much of a say on how he goes out. The Lava bender would be more a case of that since he chose death over going back to prison.

"When I offered to make Norea my third back-up girlfriend she just glared at me and started throwing things at me.." Renee Costa

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