The Scrappy Cleanup

I would like to know what Kersti's reception in Japan is like to see if Americans Hate Tingle is in effect, assuming the vast majority of Western fans actually dislike Kersti.

While it was developed by a Japanese studio, Sticker Star was released in America first, so would that be relevant to bring up?

I mean, it's also one game made by a Japanese studio and part of a Japanese franchise, so I'd personally say that the audience in the franchise's homeland is still something to consider.

also iirc there’s precedent in a character’s foreign fanbase ‘disqualifying’ them from being a full-on Scrappy. (i think it was Mineta)

That's what we have Americans Hate Tingle for, at least.

yeah that’s the point I was trying to make

It was actually Cameron from the Pokemon anime that I first saw the argument used for, then I pointed out Mineta would also fall under that scope, so out he went, too.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Feb 12th 2023 at 4:41:54 AM

I found this example in literature:

Gone is a series with a pretty widespread fanbase. For every child-whipper, sociopathic Magnificent Bastard, and manipulative Tsundere, there is a fanbase. Except Zil Sperry. You cannot like that guy. At all. Doesn't help that the author based him on Hitler. There is also a lot of hate for the rest of the Human Crew, as well as Penny, Bug, Taylor, and Astrid. But even they have pretty dedicated, vocal and yes, reasonably sized fanbases. Just less so than others. No one's really the scrappy except Zil... and even he has a few notable followers on Gaiaphage.Com.

Having read these books: Zil is a villain who is intended to be unlikable, as the entry said the author based him on Hitler. I'm also not sure why they bother to list all these other characters only to say actually they don't count as a scrappy, the whole entry should just be cut.

Also want to discuss this entry from Warrior Cats:

Notable ones include Daisy and Millie. Firestar is a borderline-scrappy. Daisy actually ended up being Rescued from the Scrappy Heap once she revealed her Hidden Depths and got some Character Development. Millie, however, is only despised even more by the fandom, once she turned out to be an abusive mother. Onestar is a strange variation of this. Back when he was a warrior in the first arc, he was definitely an Ensemble Dark Horse. But in the second arc he takes a level in jerkass and by the third arc he became a scrappy.

—-

Daisy should be removed due to being Rescued from the Scrappy Heap, as mentioned. Firestar is one of the most popular characters in the series and is a favorite of a lot of people, I don't know why he's here.

Onestar is complicated. He's definitely largely hated, but he is intended to be an antagonist; however, part of the hatred is also due to people seeing his Takes A Level In Jerkass to be poor writing and Character Derailment. But there is a Broken Base as to whether he's actually poorly written or whether his change in character made narrative sense and was not derailment, so I think as of a few months ago he would not count as The Scrappy. But then recently they made a book focusing on him that was poorly received even by the people who previously liked his character, and added extra, more scrappy-like rather than narratively intentional reasons for people to hate him, such as getting romantically together with his former apprentice and this being rather brushed off by the narrative, and the narrative seeming to try to excuse him for actions as an attempt as Sympathetic P.O.V. that in previous installments were portrayed as intentionally unsympathetic. And there are still people who like or at least hate him as an intentional villain who think he was ruined by the new book and appreciate his other appearances. So I'm not sure if he counts.

Edited by molokai198 on Feb 12th 2023 at 8:22:02 AM

I think Onestar is a scrappy, especially after the book. (Though I'm biased because I've always been Team Mudclaw)

Firestar is a Base-Breaking Character at best.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 12th 2023 at 9:58:19 AM

From YMMV.X Men Unlimited 2021:

• The Scrappy: Curse, Nature Girl's mutant sidekick, is heavily disliked for her smug attitude, encouraging Lin's worst qualities, and for her For the Evulz attitude. Later attempts at making her a sympathetic villain received lukewarm reception at best, due to her unbearable personality and coming in too little, too late.

Curse's power hurts her when she tries to make things better with a curse, so she spends much of her arc sliding into villainy before killing herself by overloading her power in a Heel–Face Turn moment, after deciding her friends have gone too far and it's all her fault. That might qualify for Hate Sink, but I'm not sure it really hits the scrappy overlap.

Any thoughts?

War Jay 77, do you think any other Warriors character would count as a scrappy besides the ones listed there? I feel like Bramblestar could count, he's pretty hated by the fandom and it's clearly not an intended reaction because of how the narrative (particularly in TBC) treats him as an amazing leader who you are supposed to like. He does have a few defenders and there are some cases (like his arguments with Squirrelflight in TNP) where the fandom is divided on who's to blame, but everyone seems to hate how he sides with Tigerstar despite knowing how bad he is and is praised and allowed to keep his deputy position afterward, and by TBC most of the fandom seemed disappointed that everyone was so obsessed with saving him and that he didn't stay dead.

Also maybe Tom from DOTC? He is intentionally supposed to be bad, but his last-minute Redemption Equals Death was pretty universally not well-received.

Edited by molokai198 on Feb 14th 2023 at 11:20:24 AM

Can Cyrus, the sneezing bird, from The Angry Birds Movie qualify? Due to all of his humour being sneezing, he's often listed as one of the criticisms of the film, and even fans are annoyed by him. He is also a very unpopular character whom people rarely talk about when the film is brought up, to the point where only few people know his name.

Edited by CarlFilip19 on Feb 15th 2023 at 10:42:12 AM

Felt like I should bring up this edit from Baccano! that discusses the Genoards.

• The Scrappy: Dallas and Eve are among the least popular characters in the cast. To be fair though, Dallas at least seems to be intentionally unlikeable. With Eve, most fans tend to just find her boring, though to be fair to her, the anime left out a good chunk of her character development.

The way the edit is structured (as seen by it acknowledging that the anime leaves out a good chunk of Eve's Character Development) this seems to only apply to consensus on the anime, and not the light novels (of which only a few are adapted in the anime). Furthermore, bringing up that Dallas is intentionally unlikeable makes it sound like he's a Hate Sink, (which he is in the anime, though you could admittedly make an argument for that given his genuinely close relationship with Eve) which I'm fairly certain should prevent him from being a full-on Scrappy. And even if he doesn't qualify as a Hate Sink, the edit honestly lacks an argument for why he (and his sister) can be classified as Scrappies.

In regards to Eve, the edit merely makes it sound likes she's a Vanilla Protagonist and/or Overshadowed by Awesome; from what the edit describes, rather than outright hating her, people seem largely indifferent to her. And, as previously mentioned, the edit only covers Eve's characterisation in the anime; it would seem that she is at least a bit more popular in the light novels than she is in the anime (granted, she's still not as complex and well-regarded as the other characters).

What's your take?

Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Feb 17th 2023 at 12:55:10 AM

I say delete them both. Dallas is an asshole who you aren't supposed to like, and Eve is a somewhat bland minor character whose only remotely-annoying feature is that she's the one character who actually likes Dallas.

How's this for an entry? https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TheScrappy/Pokemon

• Tracey was already facing an uphill battle due to replacing the beloved Brock but his actions as a main character did nothing to endear him to audiences. Not only did he lack Brock's charisma but he would often act like a Jerkass to Ash and his introductory episode gives off the impression he's only tagging along with Ash to meet Professor Oak, in other words using Ash as a means to an end. After the Orange Islands arc, Brock was quickly brought back with Tracey staying in Pallet Town to be Oak's assistant. Tracey's only made sporadic appearances since then, having not had a speaking role since 2006.

Or do you guys think Tracey stopped being hated once he stopped being a main character?

Edited by Mariofan99 on Feb 18th 2023 at 8:46:22 AM

I think people still rag on Tracey, but he's hated more as a Replacement Scrappy than a regular one. Since he barely appeared after that I don't think he was ever rescued.

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 18th 2023 at 3:01:12 PM

While people still rag on Tracy, I don't think they outright dislike him that much as a whole? Dude's mostly just a boring character that does very little. He doesn't drag down enjoyment so much as not contribute.

He's definitely a Replacement Scrappy, though.

Edited by Karxrida on Feb 18th 2023 at 1:01:07 AM

What's Tracey's reception among Japanese fans like?

I guess I need clarification if the character needs to STILL be hated continuously to count or if this is more of a historical record. As while Tracey was a Scrappy in the past people have moved on and hes garnered some fans BECAUSE of how long hes gone without appearing

If people change their minds about a character who hasn't done anything in a long time, it could go under Character Perception Evolution.

Well its less his reputation has improved and more not many people care anymore since Brock was brought back and Tracey was Demoted to Extra

We still do historical examples, right?

I think Jar Jar is still listed for Star Wars so I assume so.

Edited by Karxrida on Feb 22nd 2023 at 1:52:15 AM

So I noticed this on Homestar Runner:

• The Scrappy: Crack Stuntman, especially from fans who thought he was becoming a spotlight-stealing character from the Cheat Commandos shorts.

The entry doesn't give any real reason on why Crack is hated other than a vague "he gets too much focus" and even then I don't recall much hate from fans regarding the guy.