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The Scrappy Cleanup

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RustBeard Since: Sep, 2016
#4501: Jun 13th 2021 at 8:41:19 PM

I'm kind of using fanbase interchangeably with audience. My point is, is there a character who is particularly hated by the audience who bares the brunt of the hate? Like Dan Aykroyd was the leader of the neighborhood. Could this be rewritten to be about his character?

Edited by RustBeard on Jun 13th 2021 at 8:42:01 AM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4502: Jun 13th 2021 at 8:42:07 PM

I'm almost positive that that was not written by a fan of the movie, but by someone who hates nearly every character anyway.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
RustBeard Since: Sep, 2016
#4503: Jun 13th 2021 at 8:46:03 PM

Fair enough, but we tend to assume everyone's part of a work's audience, even those who hate it. I'm just wondering if there's a specific character who's hated by the audience.

Edit: For instance, could the example be written like this:

The Scrappy: Vic Frohmeyer is viewed as this for leading the harassment of the Kranks after learning that they're skipping Christmas to go on a cruise. While he does help them out by the end of the movie, he still refers to their choice to go on a cruise as a sin.

Edited by RustBeard on Jun 13th 2021 at 8:49:44 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4504: Jun 13th 2021 at 8:47:36 PM

Here's the thing, Rust. Scrappies are specifically hated by fans. Not just by the audience. Yes, hatedoms are discussed too, but aren't counted in certain reactions. Base Breaker and Ensemble Dark Horse are others off the top of my head that need fan reaction, not just reaction.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 13th 2021 at 11:48:27 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4505: Jun 13th 2021 at 8:58:55 PM

The implication of The Scrappy is that the character brings down the quality of the show by showing up. If someone already thinks the show is low in quality, it's unlikely they'll view a character as a Scrappy.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
RustBeard Since: Sep, 2016
#4506: Jun 13th 2021 at 9:03:44 PM

I guess that makes sense, though it will mean we have to differentiate between who's a "real fan" and who isn't. Anyways, the example has been deleted.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4507: Jun 13th 2021 at 9:13:12 PM

It's about the tone of the entry, but for Scrappy it's usually just a matter of the entries being misuse by attacking multiple characters in the work. Entries like "every character sucks and that's why this show sucks" just tend to be misuse.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4508: Jun 13th 2021 at 9:25:01 PM

[up][up] It's not about "real fans" and "fake fans". It's pretty easy to differentiate fandom and hatedom, and the Krank example was a hatedom.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Onlythrice Since: Jul, 2013 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#4509: Jun 14th 2021 at 6:56:15 AM

Regarding the Amber discussion from earlier, I'd like to start off by saying that I was under the impression the "six months" thing was more of a guideline than a hard-and-fast rule, that part was my bad and it won't happen again. But while I may have used the phrase "sociopath" a little too loosely I won't apologize for being right about the rest of it, even months after the season's over you literally cannot have a discussion about this show with anyone without someone bringing up how insufferable her character was made, with it being nowhere near an even enough break for her to be seen as base-breaking.

Edited by Onlythrice on Jun 14th 2021 at 10:10:40 AM

FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
#4510: Jun 15th 2021 at 7:53:44 AM

Hm, if the Scrappy has to be hated by the fans, then what about this entry from Vegan Artbook?

  • The Scrappy: Sterk is the worst of all the main cast since he goes one step further and kills those who don't agree with him. It's rather telling who exactly the target audience is that they regard him as an Ensemble Dark Horse.

This webcomic is in our So Bad It's Horrible page, and a lot of the YMMV page is written from that perspective. Sterk is more of a Base-Breaking Character (or a case of Americans Hate Tingle if "vegans vs. non-vegans" is a valid example of that trope), as the entry practically states.

WackyPancake from My computer. Since: May, 2011
#4511: Jun 15th 2021 at 8:00:41 AM

From YMMV.Darkstalkers.

I... don't get this entry. Like, it might as well be the case that this character is hated, but it doesn't explain why he's hated. I don't know if being "a fishman with transformation abilities" is some sort of unforgivably loathsome characterization for this particular fanbase, especially considering all the cast are some form of monster. If it is, the entry should probably explain why.

I mean, the dude who made that webcomic certainly seems to hate him, but that's just one dude.

The Scrappy in general has a lot of problems with examples like this one that simply read as "this character is hated" with no further elaboration, and probably should count as ZCEs.

"I like girls, but now, it's about justice."
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4512: Jun 15th 2021 at 8:13:43 AM

[up][up] The entry says he's an Ensemble Dark Horse with the actual fanbase, so that's an obvious cut to me.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WackyPancake from My computer. Since: May, 2011
#4513: Jun 15th 2021 at 8:14:22 AM

I doubt that comic has an actual fanbase beyond the author herself.

"I like girls, but now, it's about justice."
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#4514: Jun 15th 2021 at 8:14:54 AM

[up][up] I dislike him because he was a pain in the ass to fight off, but I do believe he's rather unpopular too. However, the entry is quite bad as is zero context.

Edited by Tomodachi on Jun 15th 2021 at 8:15:16 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
ejmenendez Since: May, 2015
#4515: Jun 15th 2021 at 8:31:55 AM

@Rikuo: I don't think the character is necessarily hated, just not as popular as some of the other characters. For what it's worth, he does have the "Curiously attractive for a fishman" meme from the cartoon that some fans still use today if that helps.

WackyPancake from My computer. Since: May, 2011
#4516: Jun 15th 2021 at 8:33:37 AM

Really, the only valid point the entry raises against the character is that he's apparently a bitch to fight, and that would more accurately place him in Tier Induced Scrappy rather than this trope.

"I like girls, but now, it's about justice."
FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#4518: Jun 15th 2021 at 11:41:21 AM

~Onlythrice Are you sure that this isn't just confirmation bias only showing the negative side of her character's reception?

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Onlythrice Since: Jul, 2013 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#4519: Jun 15th 2021 at 12:43:49 PM

I don't think you understand how overwhelmingly negative her reception is. When you Google "Amber invincible" literally the third result is an article from a feminist pop culture website calling attention to how reviled she is and defending her, and even there among the kind of people her Adaptational Personality Change was made to pander to, most of the replies are going against it and shitting on either her or the writers. You accused me of exaggerating earlier, but the distaste in the general consensus is so bad on several occasions I've seen newer fans celebrate a page in the comics where she gets a black eye, even though she's a completely different person altogether there. They literally cheered punching out a woman just for having the same name.

Edited by Onlythrice on Jun 15th 2021 at 3:50:49 PM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4520: Jun 15th 2021 at 12:47:59 PM

Glancing through the comments, it looks like there's a lot of other people arguing in her favor against those who dislike her, with a few people taking the third option of "she's held back by a crappy plotline" (which feels distinct from the character herself being bad). Not familiar with the show but this feels more like Base-Breaking Character — and it's too early to call by our standards either way.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 15th 2021 at 3:48:20 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Onlythrice Since: Jul, 2013 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#4521: Jun 15th 2021 at 1:01:17 PM

You neglected to factor in the fact that the comments against her tend to have higher like amounts, and the fact that even in this subset of fans who would be inclined to like her she's still heavily disliked. Here's a look at a more general distribution. Much less sympathetic. Hell, go on YouTube and type in "Amber invincible" and look at the top results and their comments. To quote one of them, "You know it’s bad when people on 4chan, Reddit, and Twitter all collectively agree that Amber was in the wrong." With the overwhelming amount of evidence available, it shouldn't take half a year to figure out how people feel.

Edited by Onlythrice on Jun 15th 2021 at 4:03:04 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4522: Jun 15th 2021 at 1:02:19 PM

Maybe that's true, but the point still stands that it's too early to know.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Onlythrice Since: Jul, 2013 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#4523: Jun 15th 2021 at 1:05:44 PM

I respectfully disagree, do you really believe that such overwhelming vitriol will suddenly just cool down if we give it another month or two? The next season's a year off, she's not getting Rescued from the Scrappy Heap anytime before that, if at all.

Edited by Onlythrice on Jun 15th 2021 at 4:07:35 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4524: Jun 15th 2021 at 1:06:24 PM

The time limit exists for a reason, and you're breaking the rules if you insist on adding her despite that. I never said the vitriol will cool down, but there's always the possibility that it might, and if it does, then that's exactly why we have a waiting period. We don't like knee-jerk reactions.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 15th 2021 at 4:07:29 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Onlythrice Since: Jul, 2013 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
#4525: Jun 15th 2021 at 1:12:30 PM

As I mentioned earlier I was unaware it was a rule and it won't happen again, I'm not insisting on anything, merely trying to explain why she's not a simple base breaker to those unfamiliar with the situation and elaborate on my previous actions. From my point of view at the time given everything I've stated so far and more, it was hardly a knee-jerk reaction when we're already a quarter of a year past the first season and nothing's changed. But rules are rules and I defer to the moderators' judgement.

Edited by Onlythrice on Jun 15th 2021 at 4:28:03 AM


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