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The Scrappy Cleanup

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Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#4251: Feb 12th 2021 at 3:07:04 PM

Let's do this, delete the Scrappy entry and create a BBC entry for Lambo. I'm not a fan of dividing characters in pieces, unless it's timeline variants. At the end of the day, Lambo is the same character, both young and adult in the same body and being.

Edited by Tomodachi on Feb 12th 2021 at 3:10:16 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
cute_heart Boooo~~ from Valindria Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Boooo~~
#4252: Feb 13th 2021 at 12:37:40 AM

I just created a Base-Breaking Character entry for Lambo now, thanks for your help!

Read the letter Cricket!
Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#4253: Feb 16th 2021 at 10:33:51 AM

Hey there. This is all a bit new to me as I haven't gone on this section of the site before so forgive me if I make any mistakes here! evil grin I'd just like some advice before participating.

There appears to be some issues with The Scrappy on the Baldur's Gate page. For a start, despite there being a specific page for The Scrappy for Baldur's Gate (found here: [1]) the majority of examples appear to be listed in the game's YMMV page and the page is also not linked.

As for the examples themselves, I think a few of them could do with a bit of rewrite/clean-up and there is one listed entry which I am going to have to contest, which is this one here:

  • The whole point of Noober is that if you put up with him long enough you earn 400 XP and he goes away. However, he's deliberately extremely annoying: you have to allow him to interact with you 32 times and 21 of the last 22 of those times are him repeating the same question, so players who don't already know that eventually he'll get tired and go away are likely to assume he's an infinite loop and just kill him off. The developers seem to have anticipated this, as murdering him is *not* considered an evil act.

My understanding of this trope is that the The Scrappy was not intended to be disliked but is. There appears to be Intended Audience Reaction here, which means I don't think Noober qualifies for the trope, as he is designed to be disliked.

There is also an entry that has been double posted. The character Anomen has an entry on both the page and the YMMV page which is written up differently.

YMMV page example:

  • In the second game Anomen stands atop the pile as the most loathed party member several years after official release. Despite his good points, the effort he puts into being a rude, judgemental asshole is incredible.note  It didn't help his case at all that there were planned romances for Haer'Dalis and Valygar, but due to time constraints Anomen was the sole female love interest available outside of mods until the Enhanced Edition, when Dorn, Hexxat and Rasaad came along.

Baldur's Gate Scrappy page example:

  • Several NPCs have minor hatedoms. Anomen, however, has a fairly major one, not only because he's a major Jerkass and a hypocrite but, until the Enhanced Edition came out, for being the only canonical female Player Character love interest on top of that. It really doesn't help that initially, he really has pretty average Wisdom scores - something Clerics needed plenty of in order to cast quite a few high-level spells.

It think I like the Baldur's Gate specific one more, as it is far more concise whilst the YMMV page one seems a bit more rambling.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Feb 16th 2021 at 6:42:22 PM

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#4254: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:29:48 PM

[up]Cutting Noober as intentional and hated for gameplay not narrative. Since the series has it’s own Scrappy page I replaced the YMMV page entry with a link to that. Agree the Scrappy pages Anomen entry was more to the point.

YMMV.My Brave Pony Starfleet Magic:

  • The Scrappy: Most of the cast is greatly hated (with Rhymey and The Grand Ruler becoming some of the biggest). But even then, hardly anyone likes Big Bad Titan for being a bland Generic Doomsday Villain who is a walking list of Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain clichés that isn't funny, intimidating, unique, or remotely competent. And yet despite this, the story keeps pushing him as a major threat given how he's one of the few recurring villains of the series and seems to be set up as the main bad guy of two seasons.

Rhymey and The Grand Ruler we’re deemed not scrappies as it require they be hated by those who otherwise like the work. Titan I think is the same thing as nothing suggests the hated is from those who are unironic fans. Cut?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 16th 2021 at 1:30:04 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4255: Feb 16th 2021 at 1:30:53 PM

I don't think the work has unironic fans. Cut.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#4256: Feb 17th 2021 at 10:21:35 AM

I found the following in Diabolik Lovers:

I'm not really convinced by any of these, though a case could perhaps be made for the first. They also come across as an example of work bashing/complaining (particularly the second one).

The first two seem a pretty solid case of Americans Hate Tingle more than anything. They could probably be moved there but with a heavy rewrite, though I’m really not fond of the second entry as it’s quite heavy on the work bashing and sarcasm and think that it could probably be cut altogether. Plus it tries to make out the majority of the cast as being this trope and groups don't count.

The third entry is also flawed, as it doesn't provide any evidence for it's claim that Cordelia is a hated character.

Thoughts?

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Feb 17th 2021 at 6:22:00 PM

PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#4257: Feb 17th 2021 at 10:37:03 AM

[up][up][up] Didn't there used to be a Scrappy subpage a while ago before it got deleted? If people keep adding Scrappy entries to that did, we might need to leave a commented out note to not add it.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Feb 17th 2021 at 2:37:23 PM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#4258: Feb 18th 2021 at 9:17:21 AM

So I don't frequent this thread a lot but as I and another troper have been watching the Highlander show I did have a suggestion for adding: Ahriman from the last season. He's a nasty Complete Monster with crimes the viewers aren't exactly intended to be cheering him on for but he also pretty well embodies when the show started to seriously Jump the Shark. He's an ancient demon in a work that pretty well restricted itself to just the immortal conflict being the supernatural element in its Low Fantasy setting and causes the death of Duncan's young immortal friend, Richie, who fans had grown to like after initially finding him annoying. Literally the only defence of his arc I can find online is that aspects of the story itself are interesting... nothing on the character himself, who's utterly reviled for not just villain qualities but being a sudden character to take down a member of the main cast who had been around since season 1, shifting the tone of the story in a ridiculous way and being a major contributor to the reason why season 6 was the last. Thoughts?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#4259: Feb 19th 2021 at 6:32:08 AM

For the same show...Kanwulf the Viking is listed in the Scrappy section and...this seems to be based on nothing more than him being handsome and soft-spoken in modern day as opposed to a growling, hulking monster? I can't find where the fandom even thinks low of him, thinking this should be cut.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#4260: Feb 19th 2021 at 6:54:03 AM

As we just watched that episode... I personally found him pretty damn likeable, being charming, capable of getting citizens to trust him as a seemingly kindly priest and (both) times he fights Duncan to the death was fully happy to die in honourable combat. Is there even a citation that can be found online about anyone disliking the guy? I'm really thinking that should be cut and we can swap in Ahriman aka the demon from nowhere [lol]

Just did a bit more research... nothing on Reddit about any dislike for the guy and the YouTube legally uploaded episode has like nothing but comments about people saying they loved the story and how happy they are to see their fav episode was directed by Adrian Paul himself. There is no ground to list him on that I can find.

Edit: Doing a little more digging... the entire current list is flawed, trying to speak ill of Richie or Tessa (the former of whom's entry starts with "to some" anyways) seems to spark debate amongst the fandom, so that's more aligned with Base-Breaking Character. The other one, Lisa, is a psychopathic hitman who gets surgery to look like Tessa and you aren't supposed to support her as a Love Interest... she's a villain. Mixed up characters lol, can't comment on Anne.

Edited by 43110 on Feb 19th 2021 at 11:52:39 AM

Unicorndance Logic Girl from Thames, N.Z. Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Logic Girl
#4261: Feb 19th 2021 at 1:51:03 PM

For every low there is a high.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4262: Feb 19th 2021 at 3:38:35 PM

Isn't Elmo one of the shows most iconic and popular characters. Why would he be an example ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4263: Feb 19th 2021 at 4:15:50 PM

I've heard a lot of fans who grew up in the 70's and 80's really disliked Elmo for becoming an over-merchandised Creator's Pet from the 90's onwards. I think he's a valid Base-Breaking Character, but it's largely a generational thing.

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 19th 2021 at 7:16:02 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Idisagree Since: Jun, 2011
#4264: Feb 19th 2021 at 6:33:08 PM

Is there a cleanup for Creator's Pet? I feel some of the examples on Western Animation are blatant misuse (especially Thomas The Train Engine and Mickey Mouse). I'm sorry if this is the wrong place but I feel these need to be addressed.

The The Fairly OddParents! examples don't count. Only Crocker ever got shilled ... on a couple occasions but he's a Base-Breaking Character and one of the closest things the show has to a main villain. Timmy's Dad and Ms. Crocker (no evidence of her being a Creator's Favorite) tend to be disliked but are almost never even praised (let alone unnecessarily). If anyone from that show counts, it's Chloe from the last season (she's a borderline Mary Sue who's sometimes seen as the worst part of the worst season).

Randy Marsh might be getting more focus but even the entry states that fans are divided over said focus. While he's got plenty detractors he's usually considered too funny/popular to be The Scrappy and is often a Butt-Monkey.

Taffy from Rugrats isn't on that page despite her being a character who's status as The Scrappy is largely because of her being a Creator's Pet. She probably wouldn't be as hated if she wasn't being shilled by everyone constantly.

Edited by Idisagree on Feb 19th 2021 at 6:36:24 AM

LaundryPizza03 Maintenance? from Texas Since: Aug, 2020
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#4266: Feb 20th 2021 at 12:52:52 PM

Anyways with no pushback I'm gonna assume this operates like the Hate Sink cleanup and purge the bad Highlander examples and add in a blurb on Ahriman.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4267: Feb 20th 2021 at 1:24:16 PM

[up] You'll find that outside of CM and MB, most cleanup threads function the same way.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Idisagree Since: Jun, 2011
#4268: Feb 20th 2021 at 5:10:18 PM

I cut-pasted my previous post to the appropriate thread.

I think a Hate Sink can qualify as The Scrappy if they are hated for unintentional reasons (mostly being annoying, poorly written, and/or kinda dull) that go beyond their actions. Babidi from Dragon Ball is a classic example of this. His actions are loathsome but unlike Frieza or Cell (both have worse deeds but are iconic and very popular), he's really annoying and weak (he's a bratty Non-Action Big Bad in a show known for its fight scenes).

Edited by Idisagree on Feb 20th 2021 at 5:10:56 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4269: Feb 20th 2021 at 6:08:29 PM

[up] Yes, that's right.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Idisagree Since: Jun, 2011
#4270: Feb 20th 2021 at 7:53:24 PM

Does Dartz from Yugioh really count. Quite a few people (including myself) enjoy his duel (one of the entry's main arguments for his inclusion) for how over the top it is and consider it a highlight of Season 4 (this includes at least 1 Yugioh magazine at the time). Yugioh also has had more than one Invincible Villain near his power level. Besides Yugioh Abridged probably redeemed him like it did Weevil Underwood. He's nowhere near as hated as Anubis from Pyramid of Light (seen as a lame Generic Doomsday Villain and waste of an Egyptian god).

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4271: Feb 23rd 2021 at 10:47:59 AM

Can the Scrappy subtropes count as an Intended Audience Reaction as opposed to just being a Hate Sink? There was previously an Ethnic Scrappy entry for Cousin Kyle on South Park, who is designed to be an annoying representation of several Jewish stereotypes that is hated in-universe and doesn't get much respect from the fandom either, as far as I know. However, it got removed because intentional examples of The Scrappy are seen as Hate Sink. But Ethnic Scrappy is slightly different, so do the same standards apply here if there's a deliberately-designed Ethnic Scrappy?

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
#4272: Feb 25th 2021 at 8:38:38 AM

I'm pretty sure this is misuse, right? From YMMV.Game FA Qs; this isn't "character is hated by fans of this work", it's "character from another work is hated by members of this community".

ejmenendez Since: May, 2015
#4273: Feb 25th 2021 at 9:23:13 AM

[up] Definite cut, but wasn't there something against certain websites having YMMV pages?

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#4274: Feb 25th 2021 at 10:36:20 AM

I bring you all some weird examples from PAYDAY 2. Keep in mind this game has quite the Unpleasable Fanbase, which might explain a few things:

  • Bain was initially far less likeable in this game since he Took a Level in Jerkass (until an update, he never apologized to the team if they fail like he did in the first game, for one thing), never shuts up even when he only has a single line for a situation ("Guys, the thermal drill. Go get it."), and his cleaner costs for killing civilians (which, stealth or loud, will almost certainly be necessary due to not having enough cable ties to secure every civilian, or accidental from either their insistence on standing directly in your line of fire or the cops' insistence on helping them up then sitting right there, effectively using them as shields) are much higher. Some people have made mods dedicated to muting Bain permanently. Should probably be moved to Rescued from the Scrappy Heap, as I've never heard anyone hate him nowadays (Hell, he's now under Magnificent Bastard, and Scrappies can't be MB's).
  • The Cloaker (both in-universe and meta-wise). While he is undeniably a Demonic Spider and an obvious gameplay mechanic and necessary enemy, his quotes make him this by far. People have taken note that the Cloaker's responses tend to represent the worst traits of Overkill. Not only that, the latter is also loathed by the law enforcement themselves for being batshit crazy enough to be put in a mental asylum and being just sadistic enough to give the PAYDAY Gang themselves a run for their money! They also got demonized by the developers themselves in Lab Rats and Prison Nightmare as the "Necro-Cloaker". And good riddance when he gets killed. This sounds more like Hate Sink than anything. The page also lists him as an Ensemble Dark Horse. Also, his taunts aren't Overkill being Trolling Creators, they're lampshading the hypocrisy of the fanbase.

  • In-universe, Bain and the crew still hate Alex the pilot from the first game. But they still keep hiring him.
    • Also in-universe, Hoxton loathes Houston. Definite cut, they seem like meta examples only.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#4275: Feb 25th 2021 at 3:51:29 PM

I'll let you know from experience: Game FAQS is easily one of the most toxic gaming communities out there. Mythra and Pyra also got backlash from them and others who haven't/don't want to play Xenoblade Chronicles and see them as little more as a "another Anime Sword person" along with Sephiroth, never mind the fact Roy, Marth, or the three Link incarnations never get any hate. But again, this is from people who aren't fans of the work, so they shouldn't count. The fact they only want Crash Bandicoot out of any Third parties that are left should tell you everything. Isabelle is also hated by Game Faqs seeing her as little more than "furrybait". You get the idea.

Edited by Klavice on Feb 25th 2021 at 3:55:40 AM


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