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The Scrappy Cleanup

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#4051: Oct 30th 2020 at 6:49:19 PM

I can agree on making it a requirement- I guess there was just a miscommunication as it looked to me like you were citing a rule, not proposing one.

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tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
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#4052: Oct 31st 2020 at 12:35:37 AM

I think, as long as the character actually counts as The Scrappy, it should be okay to list some catharsis at their expense.

cute_heart Boooo~~ from Valindria Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Boooo~~
#4053: Nov 1st 2020 at 12:28:38 PM

I'll bring up these entries from Red Hood and the Outlaws:

  • The Scrappy: Nearly every starring character has been considered The Scrappy in one way or another.
    • Many don't like Red Hood as just another generic Unintentionally Unsympathetic "bad boy" anti-hero with Creator's Pet qualities, and preferred him as a tragic and nuanced Batman antagonist.
    • Roy has had years of character development and maturity (from being a father) stripped away in order to make him into an Adult Child that Jason has to babysit.
      • Sounds too complainy and Natter to me
    • Many were critical that Lobdell had Starfire's bending over Roy and propositioning him for sex while lacking mental agency.
      • Starfire is a popular character, but it's Scott Lobdell's writing on this book that fans hate so I think it has some merit.
    • Wonder Woman fans hate that Artemis has been relegated to replacing Starfire as the token Ms. Fanservice and as an object of lust for Jason.
      • I'm also not really familiar with the Wonder Woman fandom to check if this version of Artemis is a scrappy in their eyes.

I feel most of these fall into Base-Breaking Character so I'm planning to rewrite them. Although Jason already has a base breaking character and a broken base entry on his Red Hood page so I feel putting it again is redundant.

Edited by cute_heart on Nov 1st 2020 at 12:29:50 PM

Read the letter Cricket!
MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
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#4054: Nov 2nd 2020 at 1:44:44 AM

[up] Worth pointing out They Changed It, Now It Sucks! could encompass changes in writing from one writer to the next.

cute_heart Boooo~~ from Valindria Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Boooo~~
#4055: Nov 2nd 2020 at 3:11:59 AM

You have a point, so I think I'll rewrite Starfire and Roy's entry to They Changed It, Now It Sucks! instead.

I tried to find some backlash for Artemis' example, but I didn't really encounter any hatred for her while I was in the fandom. In fact, she is liked by the fans but I could be looking at the wrong place. So I can safely cut all of this, right?

I'm also putting a comment linking to this page if someone wants to change this to prevent another edit war from happening there.

Edited by cute_heart on Nov 2nd 2020 at 3:19:42 AM

Read the letter Cricket!
tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
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#4056: Nov 2nd 2020 at 8:24:10 AM

I'm sorry if I'm opening old wounds here, but why exactly was Zipper from Animal Crossing denied as a Scrappy?

The hatred he got in New Horizons was close to universal, and as many others have pointed out, he was never well-liked to begin with.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
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#4057: Nov 2nd 2020 at 11:11:49 AM

I'm going to take a guess, but maybe it's because the Bunny Day thing was more of a Scrappy Mechanic, while Zipper as a character has some fans due to Alternate Character Interpretation that he secretly hates his job?

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
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#4058: Nov 2nd 2020 at 12:01:43 PM

Okay, that's a solid reason.

Then again, he's still on TheScrappy.Video Games.

tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
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#4060: Nov 4th 2020 at 5:03:54 AM

I have to bring this example from YMMV.Rock A Doodle up again:

The character is somehow both The Scrappy and an Ensemble Dark Horse? I also initially brought it up because the entry was a massive Wall of Text and sounded waaaaay too complainy, but the fact that it now contradicts itself is stepping over the line.

If the entry isn't going to be removed, it should definitely be rewritten, especially since the excessive links are such an eyesore.

FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
#4061: Nov 4th 2020 at 6:50:53 AM

Remove it because it's already under Ensemble Dark Horse — although it could be either. To be fair, that film's considered one of Don Bluth's weaker ones.

tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
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#4062: Nov 4th 2020 at 7:17:56 AM

The entry makes compelling arguments, but they're all buried under excessive complaining.

If it could be either, it's probably a Base-Breaking Character. Nevertheless, the entry needs to go. The whole page could use a clean-up, the same troper who added this entry practically hijacked the page.

ejmenendez Since: May, 2015
#4063: Nov 7th 2020 at 1:21:13 PM

This was in Killer Instinct:

  • Replacement Scrappy: Killer Instinct 2's newcomers Maya, Tusk, and Kim Wu aren't too popular with the fans, being replacements of fan favorites Cinder, Thunder, and Riptor. Replacing three unique fan-favorites with a trio of generic human warriors? Not a great move. It also doesn't help Thunder is given no explanation for his disappearance and the other two are simply written as being dead, making for a rather cheap way to get rid of them. Fortunately, the 2013 reboot saw Maya, Kim Wu, and Tusk all being retooled and becoming more popular again, resulting in them being Rescued from the Scrappy Heap.
    • Gargos gets some heat as well from fans for being more of a stock character than Eyedol in addition to sharing his role and similar moves. However, there are some who like him for the fact that he contributed more in the story than Eyedol did. Like the other two, he's in the way from being Rescued due to his impact throughout all three seasons of Killer Instinct thus building him up for years.

As the last sentence for both states, all the characters were Rescued from the Scrappy Heap when they were added back in the 2013 game. The fact they appear alongside the characters they were assumed to have replaced certainly helps.

Now this does apply for their debut game, Killer Instinct 2, which the YMMV for talks about. Tropes relating to the new game are now Killer Instinct (2013). But should those last sentences still be kept?

Edited by ejmenendez on Nov 7th 2020 at 1:41:44 AM

tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
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#4064: Nov 9th 2020 at 4:52:27 AM

These from YMMV.How I Met Your Mother:

  • Quinn, naturally became this to Barney/Robin shippers and Barney/Nora supporters.
  • Lily became this for some viewers at the end of season 1 when she broke up with Marshall so that she could "discover herself" by going to art school in San Francisco. It should be noted that there are fans who consider Lily a Scrappy, but cite other incidents from later in the series, the most common offenders being the Front Porch Test and nearly walking out on her marriage whilst Marshall was struggling with the death of his father. She got a lot of backlash over the credit card debt once it was revealed in Season 3.
  • Jeanette. In-Universe, she is utterly despised by everyone in the gang except Ted.
  • Clint, Virginia's new husband after she and Alfred get divorced, that is just an annoying stereotype of hippie.
  • As of the finale, Ted's kids, due to perceived Lack of Empathy shown to their mother's death and their eagerness for Ted to get back together with Robin.
I think there's a reason why Zoey, Don and Stella are the only actual examples listed on TheScrappy.Live Action TV...

Somehow, Quinn is simultaneously an Ensemble Dark Horse and The Scrappy.

Lily is a Base-Breaking Character and those examples are really just Never Live It Down.

Jeanette is obviously intended to be a Hate Sink and also became a Base-Breaking Character, since many found her to be much better written than the average Love Interest for Ted.

Clint is a character who I can't remember for the life of me, but I guess he can stay; he has much better reasons to be The Scrappy than any of those.

The spoilered characters are, once again, just Never Live It Down.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#4065: Nov 9th 2020 at 9:37:20 AM

A character shouldn't be counted as The Scrappy because of their actions in the literal final seconds of the show, so cut Ted's kids. (More people seemed angry at Ted anyway.)

The Lily entry even says "some viewers" indicating she's more of a BBC.

Quinn's entry just reads like an undercooked Die for Our Ship entry without any helpful context.

I remember a single episode of Clint but I think he was intended to be annoying? Could still qualify as a scrappy if enough people hate him though.

Can't remember Jeanette but that's basically a ZCE as it doesn't explain why the audience hates her, and if she's a Hate Sink who still found a fandom then that's an easy cut.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
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#4066: Nov 9th 2020 at 9:48:41 AM

Yes, those are my thoughts too. Lily and Jeanette have Base-Breaking Character entries already, while Quinn could be easily moved to Die for Our Ship, since such characters can still be well-received.

I'd argue that at least the reasons why Lily is supposedly considered a Scrappy could also be restored in Never Live It Down. I'm pretty sure nobody liked her sudden departure in Season 1 anyway.

ejmenendez Since: May, 2015
#4067: Nov 9th 2020 at 11:25:58 PM

I found this on Super Smash Bros.:

  • Replacement Scrappy: Pit has been accused of this on two different fronts in the fourth installment. First there's him appearing in the reveal trailer alongside the first game's original fighters in favor of Yoshi, who had to wait months for his reveal. Then there was his Palutena's Guidance appearing in favor of Snake's codex conversations, which were widely regarded as being inferior. In the next game, Yoshi regained his prominence over Pit by appearing in the original fighters only starting lineup, but unfortunately for Snake fans, while he and his codex are back, he has no lines for the many fighters introduced after his debut game, while Pit does.

Pit was never really hated among Super Smash Bros. fans, even when 4/WiiU was being released. While there was frustration over Kid Icarus' overrepresentation for the game, it wasn't during the lead-up to the game's release. Plus, Pit never actually replaced Yoshi and the Snake codex not having no dialogue was because Colonel's Japanese voice passed away.

Edited by ejmenendez on Nov 9th 2020 at 11:26:20 AM

tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
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#4068: Nov 10th 2020 at 1:12:22 AM

Cut. It's just subjective complaining.

WhirlRX Since: Jan, 2015
#4069: Nov 10th 2020 at 4:55:17 AM

[up][up]Kid Icarus was over represented? There like only three characters compared to Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
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#4070: Nov 10th 2020 at 5:17:18 AM

Most of the assets (like the chest designs) and gameplay mechanics (like the difficulty settings) are recycled from Kid Icarus. I don't see this as a problem, but I can understand why people think the series is a Creator's Pet for Sakurai.

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#4071: Nov 10th 2020 at 4:43:14 PM

This was recently added to YMMV.Sonic The Hedgehog IDW:

  • The Scrappy: You'll be hard-pressed to find someone who likes the IDW version of Shadow the Hedgehog. While initially well-liked due to his duel with Sonic and potential character development, Shadow's complex personality from the games is, due to Executive Meddling, sanded down into him being an overly arrogant Failure Hero who can't do anything right. He's generally considered an annoying disservice to the canon character, and even writer Ian Flynn doesn't like using him due to how heavily mandated his characterization and personality are.

I don't think this reception is widely shared. Aside from one (extremely stupid, but mandated) moment, I've not seen people be irritated with him too much.

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#4072: Nov 10th 2020 at 5:37:58 PM

[up] In the outlets I follow, fans (including me) tend to be disappointed with IDW Shadow's depiction, but not enough to turn against the character. Also fails the consistently-hated rule since he's a depiction of a popular character.

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#4073: Nov 10th 2020 at 6:38:19 PM

[up] My interpretation of the "consistently hated" rule is that versions of characters from alternate continuities are considered separate from each other. The point of the rule is to avoid "This character is hated in the second movie" situations when they're tolerated or even liked in the rest of the series.

So if IDW Shadow is hated in all of his appearances (sounds like he's not), he could qualify.

tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
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#4074: Nov 11th 2020 at 1:32:23 AM

Remember that overblown example from YMMV.Star Vs The Forces Of Evil? It's back:

  • Janna is likewise this to a majority of fans, many viewing her as a one note laidback trickster who constantly gets away with her pranks. It made her intriging at first, especially when it seems there was an underlying crush on Marco. But, to fans' dismay, it never evolves beyond that and her inclusion in the later seasons (where the story goes away from Earth) made little to no sense. Any subplots involing what her relationship to Marco was had long fell by the wayside, nor does she really contribute much to the overarching plot (Some assuming she's just there because the writers liked her). By season four, many fans felt she was being overexposed and that her trolling antics had gotten stale, especially to a season that was much more story driven.

Instead of simply letting it rest, CAS Hero decided to double down on Janna-bashing. Claiming that she's hated by the majority of fans, which is Blatant Lies, Janna was well-liked in the first three seasons. Almost everyone was turned into a Jerkass in Season 4, yet you don't see any of the other characters being listed here.

The point is not the wording, the point is that the entry is making false accusations against a previously well-liked character. It doesn't matter if "Some fans" or "the majority of fans" turned against her, she breaks the Consistently Hated rule and thus shouldn't be counted.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
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#4075: Nov 11th 2020 at 8:41:41 AM

So this is in Edit War territory now, then?

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

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