The Scrappy Cleanup

From YMMV.Planet Sheen

• The Scrappy:
  • Sheen was well liked in the original show, but the Flanderization he went through here brought his character and popularity down big time.
  • Princess Oom can also be quite grating as well.
  • The whole cast (aside from Nesmith, Dorkus, Pinter and Aseefa) can be easily despised.

Sheen breaks the consistently hated rule, and the rest are ZCE.

I think Sheen would probably a better fit for Never Live It Down.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 30th 2019 at 10:48:57 AM

Not only that but given the show's reception, they also fail to qualify under the "hated character in a hated work" rule. I fully support cutting them.

Edited by Loekman3 on Nov 30th 2019 at 10:00:50 PM

Speaking of the hated works rule:

• My Brave Pony: Starfleet Magic suffers in the character department due to the OCs being Flat Characters with only one trait and the actual Friendship is Magic cast is reduced to their most basic selves. However, the biggest Scrappy of the bunch is Rhymey, one of the core Starfleet members. His thing is that he rhymes every sentence he makes, or rhymes other people's sentences. While such a character could work well (Zecora and Muffy, the latter of which Rhymey is based on, immediately spring to mind), the lack of any personality aside from his gimmick makes it incredibly grating to read his dialogue. It doesn't help that his rhymes are questionable at best and downright nonsensical at worst.

This was previously deleted as it failed to explain they were hated by those who otherwise like the work. This re-addition fail to address that. Cut?

Yep. It seems the problems with Fanfiction entries of this item is that a lot of tropers seem to believe that they are the only audience for them, and don’t observe what people who DO like these fanfiction like about it, thus having examples that consist of hating OCs from fanfics they hate to just putting canon characters in The Scrappy because they didn’t like their portrayal in that fanfiction.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 30th 2019 at 1:29:41 PM

Rick and Morty:

• Jerry and Beth take this up in season 2 due to Taking a Level in Jerkass, flanderization and how their arguing/dysfunctional marriage take up way too much time when they're onscreen. What doesn't help matters is that sometimes the show seemingly takes Beth's side when she can be just as jerkish, idiotic, selfish, and incompetent as Jerry. It's to the point when Blim Blam, an alien captured in Rick's garage so he can patent a cure for Blam's "Space AIDS", has a "The Reason You Suck" Speech that rings true about their entire marriage, and more than many fans agree with him.

Blim Blam the Korblok: Um, first of all, hello. Uh, my name is Blim Blam the Korblok. Second of all, cards on the table, I'm a murderer that eats babies, and I came to this planet to eat babies. However, I am also carrying a highly infectious disease that I suppose you could call "Space AIDS" as you put it. And Rick did chain me up so that he could attempt to cure it. At the same time, Rick's motivation to cure my disease was not to save my life or anyone else's, but to patent and sell the cure for billions of Blemflarcks. But you know the reason why I ripped my chains out of the wall? And do you know why I'm never coming back to this planet? Because the two of you are the fucking worst! You both hate yourselves and each other, and the idea that it has anything to do with Rick is laughable. I'd laugh, but I'm biologically incapable - that's how alien I am. And even I'm sitting here listening to the two of you and being like, "What the fuck?!" So, good luck with your shitty marriage, and tell Rick I'm sorry he has to deal with either of you. Blim Blam out! (mic drop)

• It's so bad that plenty of people actually cheered when Beth and Jerry were about to be divorced (and were disappointed when they got back together). Although, whether being apart ultimately gave them some much needed Character Development or only made their individual flaws stand out all the more is a subject for debate among fans.
• It's particularly egregious in Beth's case, because while Jerry is often rightfully called out on his cowardice and idiocy and nobody gives him any respect, Beth is never read the riot act the same way as her husband and barely undergoes much change as a character in the first two seasons because of it. She's equally as petty and prone to Jerkass behaviour as Jerry, but she isn't a Butt-Monkey, is never hit with slapstick like the rest of her characters and it's only towards the tail end of the third season that other characters start calling her out on how she's no better than Rick "The Whirly-Dirly Conspiracy" or her co-dependency and selfishness is what's ruining her family "Pickle Rick", and Beth is hostile and dismissive in the latter case when the therapist explicitly calls her out on it. Not to mention, in general she's just not really a likeable character or even really funny, something that the rest of her family are. In addition, she often gets Character Shilling for how "smart" she is, yet Beth routinely fails to pick up on (or chooses not to) that she's being manipulated by Rick and the show flipflops on whether she's actually any good at being a horse surgeon at all.

Ooof, we’re dealing with a improperly formatted nattery wall of text here folks.

Honestly, it seems like they weren’t really meant to be particularly sympathetic in the show, but yet again, I haven’t watched the show since Season 2.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Dec 2nd 2019 at 5:16:20 AM

Oh, God. Throw it in the cremator.

• The Real Ghostbusters:
  • A character who garnered substantial ire during the run of Slimer and the Real Ghostbusters was Janine, as she had gotten a Lighter and Softer redesign that changed her from a Deadpan Snarker into a perpetually-worried-sounding, stereotypical female. Fortunately, an Author's Saving Throw addressed the complaints. A lot of fans also didn't like Venkman's overhaul and voice change, seeing him going from a cool and snarky character, voiced by Lorenzo Musik, with a much dumber and slower sounding character, along with lost edge and not many snarky jokes, voiced by Dave Coulier. The network also saw fit to redub some of the older episodes with the new voice actors for Janine and Venkman, making those episodes nearly unwatchable for fans.
  • The Junior Ghostbusters, a trio of children, didn't get to appear very often in the main series but were still hated for stealing focus away from the actual Ghostbusters and having little to do in actually affecting the plot. J. Michael Stracyznski was notably opposed to the kids and said he'd only use them if he could show them being run over by a truck. Classic Ghostbusters fans have proceeded to fulfill his wish in some fanworks.
  • Louis Tully isn't very liked for being a useless, obnoxious geek and having only been introduced to the show to tie in with the Ghostbusters films. It also doesn't help that some of the ire carries over from the film universe, where Janine broke up with Egon and started dating him instead.

Janine and Peter Venkmen defiantly don't belong here (they break the consistently hated rule), the Junior Ghostbusters can stay, and I have no clue about Louis Tully and how liked he was in Ghostbusters II or any other GB media. (apart from shipping)

Edited by PlasmaPower on Dec 3rd 2019 at 7:22:02 AM

Sonic the Hedgehog could use a revision. I like this example of Big the Cat, even if its badly put together.

• Big the Cat, ever since his debut in Sonic Adventure, which had both him and the player sitting through tedious fishing missions in order to make progress. ^note At the time Sonic Adventure was made, Sega had made a fishing-rod controller for fishing games on the Dreamcast. Big's fishing gameplay was shoehorned in because the executives wanted to use Sonic Adventure to promote the controller. His stereotypically dumb behavior and annoying voice (FROGGY!) only serve to sustain his general unpopularity.
  • Even his original voice actor, Jon St. John, said he hated the character so much, that he deliberately forgot how to do his voice.
  • Limited mostly to Sonic Adventure, due to his story being one huge Scrappy Mechanic for a lot of people. The fact that his plot is pure Filler that has almost no relevance to the main plot isn't helping. His later appearances, such as Sonic Heroes and Chronicles, seem to have saved him thanks to his more fleshed-out characterization and surprising usefulness. Not to mention all the memes surrounding him as well as getting his own game courtesy of Sega of Virgin Islands. He was even allowed into the story of LEGO Dimensions, and was the focus of the first episode of Team Sonic Racing: Overdrive.

Can a character be a scrappy in a single videogame entry? You know, like "Oh yeah Silver sucked in 2006, but in Generations he is totally cool!", turning into Base-Breaking Character?

Edited by Tomodachi on Dec 5th 2019 at 12:18:02 PM

One of the requirements of The Scrappy is to be consistently hated, which means in more than just one entry. If Big was hated in his debut, but became more popular in later appearances, that would make him Rescued from the Scrappy Heap, which takes precedence over The Scrappy.

• The Flintstones:
  • The Great Gazoo, which was a contributing factor for the show's eventual cancellation.
  • Pebbles herself —and Bamm-Bamm to a lesser extent— have this distinction to the older seasons.
  • Every character besides Fred in the early seasons. A number of fans initially didn't like Wilma and Betty because they were always nagging and chewing out their husbands for comparatively small reasons (a notable example being in the very first episode) and always sabotaging Fred and Barney's schemes. Barney wasn't particularly likeable in the early seasons either, notable examples being "The Golf Champion", "The Sweepstakes Ticket", and "The House Guest" where Barney was extremely inconsiderate towards Fred and received no comeuppance.

The first two are ZC Es, and the last one implied they were Rescued from the Scrappy Heap at some point. Shall this be purged?

The Great Gazoo is definitely a good example, but his entry needs expanding. The show's YMMV page does have a bit more details, so I could try to expand upon it.

Maybe something like this?

• The Great Gazoo was hated by fans for being an annoying reality-warping alien in a series about a modern stone-age family. Outside with clashing with the tone of the show, Gazoo came across as smug and condescending to Fred and Barney; referring to them as "dumb-dumbs" and generally making their lives more difficult. His introduction was a contributing factor for the show's eventual cancellation.

Yeah. I'd say the others can safely be cut.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Dec 5th 2019 at 8:52:00 AM

That's good, I'll probably add that to his entry. But can the last two be deleted?

• The Powerpuff Girls: The Mayor became this in the later seasons, as Flanderization turned him into a horrible example of Psychopathic Manchild. He also seemed to become a minor Creator's Pet in the last few seasons.

Another character that's been Rescued from the Scrappy Heap, I think? Also did people like him before his Flanderization?

Also this:

• Weasel from I Am Weasel had many "talents". These included: this trope, and Invincible Hero. When first introduced, he was the "man" who could do no wrong and everyone in the show worshiped him, while his "rival" I.R. Baboon had no friends of his own and often got the crap-end of the stick by the episode's end. Weasel wasn't well liked by the fans who, in the end, only seemed to watch it for the real star, Baboon. The creators realized this after some number of episodes, and took a different approach instead. Now Weasel and Baboon were partners and, though Weasel was still the multi-talented fellow of the two, he now could, and would, receive just as much punishment as his less intelligent counterpart.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Dec 5th 2019 at 9:54:07 AM

All the examples that are problematic can be cut, save for future Stone Age Haruhi Suzumiya. (What? They're both reality-warping aliens!)

Out of all the examples I deleted, in the Western Animation page this one stood out to me the most.

• Avatar: The Last Airbender: While Mai isn't really an example of this in the cartoon, since most of the fan hate towards her is because she's both Zuko's canonical girlfriend and not Katara and she's actually fairly well liked when shipping isn't taken into consideration, the comics' portrayal of her has caused her reputation to drop dramatically, starting with The Promise when she left Zuko for hiding things from her. Her reputation has reached an all-time low in Smoke and Shadow, where she is a straight-up Hypocrite and constantly blames everyone else - but especially Zuko - for any negative consequences resulting from her own actions. To make things worse, we are supposed to agree with Mai, who is specifically designated as the main character, despite all her morally questionable acts, including manipulating Kei Lo's feelings, making fun of Zuko potentially dying, even lying to him that her father could be attempting to kill him; but Zuko is cast as being in the wrong and has to apologize to Mai. And since she is designated as the main character, she neither gets called out nor does she suffer for her actions. All in all, the comics not only destroyed the positive goodwill she had built amongst the fanbase, turning her into perhaps the most actively despised character of the series, but Mai's reputation as an unambiguous scrappy also single-handedly caused fans to completely abandon the Maiko ship, reviving the ugly shipping wars involving Zuko and subsequently infuriating other fans who had to suffer through the previous shipping.

Not only breaking the consistently hated rule (it's a bad portrayal of a otherwise well-liked character), but it's referencing the comics, not the cartoon. Not to mention how complainy it is.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Dec 5th 2019 at 2:56:08 PM

There are two Played With Scrappy examples I'd like to contest since Ferot_Dreadnought has said that all Played With examples of Audience Reactions are misuse:

Goosebumps: Subverted with Tara from The Cuckoo Clock of Doom. While the series does have its tradition of having annoying/bratty siblings, Tara is just horrible, tormenting her brother, Michael, on his own birthday, constantly tricking her parents (who are also considered themselves Scrappies) into thinking she's a sweetheart, and practically make Michael's life a living hell. What's so disturbing and so sickening of her is just how fucked up she is, giving us the idea she's more of a sociopath at that, considering she never shows any remorse for her actions. The subversion comes from the fact that she was deliberately written to be as horrible as possible without a single redeeming quality to her so that none of the fans of the series would like her a single bit, and it worked perfectly! It's no surprise that she's erased from ever being born and giving us the idea that Michael will never back to save her, which is treated as a happy ending. Considering how fucked up she is, this is understandable.

Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends: Terrence is actually more of a downplayed example of this, since he's supposed to be despised due to existing for no other purpose than to ruthlessly bully his little brother. But what places him extremely moderately on this trope is due to Tara Strong even admitting that she hated playing him, as his gruff voice was a strain on her vocal chords.

YMMV can't be played with, so...

Before I cut the examples, I'd like to be told how I can create a link to my post in the edit summary (I am relatively new to TV Tropes).

EDIT: Never mind, I figured it out.

Edited by SereneSpecter13 on Dec 6th 2019 at 5:25:55 AM

Now looking at the F Hf IF YMMV page again, I think it's possible that the character Goofball John McGee, who is listed under The Scrappy, is in fact a Hate Sink, but I'm not sure if he counts. His entry goes as follows:

• Goofball John McGee from "Imposter's Home for Um...Make 'Em Up Pals," a complete moron who makes Frankie's life a living hell when she has to constantly clean up after him, causing her to miss out on her concert. And then just to humiliate her even more (although admittedly this wasn't his intent), she spends the whole episode believing he's just a lazy teenager in a Paper-Thin Disguise only to discover that he is, in fact, an imaginary friend and that all of his little things he did to drive her nuts were completely necessary.

The fact that he makes Frankie's life a living hell is what makes me think he's a Hate Sink, but the reason I'm not sure if he actually qualifies is because the Characters page for the show lists him as a Jerk with a Heart of Gold since he does give Frankie genuine gratitude for taking care of him at the episode's end. The characters page also lists him as a Karma Houdini, which is a possible unintentional reason for him to be hated. Also keep in mind that I haven't actually watched the show myself, and got all this info from This Very Wiki.

Your opinions?

•  Though not as hated as Zoey and Mike, Sam is thisin All-Stars, by being underused. The writers didn't do anything interesting with him, save for getting a poorly done Snap Back when he helped win a challenge, making him a very Flat Character whose only defining traits from the last season (video game obsession and having a crush on Dakota) are very underplayed. Instead, he becomes Chew Toy fodder. And even worse, his inclusion meant more popular and noticeably more heroic Revenge alumni Dawn and Brick would not be included in the cast. As such, he is widely considered one of the least qualified to have been an "All-Star".

Yet another character that breaks the "consistently hated" rule. Many fans still like Sam for his portrayal in Revenge of the Island, so he's out of question.

However, aren't Mike and Zoey Base Breaking Characters instead of Scrappies? There seem to be other tropers who believe the same (e.g.in the Western Animation's subpage Discussion), but I want to know what the consensus is.

As for Serene Specter 13's post, Goofball is really only disliked by Frankie and seen in the right by the others. He's probably Unintentionally Unsympathetic.

Edited by Dghcrh on Dec 7th 2019 at 4:35:12 PM

Bump to continue the discussions.

@PlasmaPower:about Mai. YMMV.Avatar The Last Airbender Smoke And Shadow:

• The Scrappy: Mai was already one of the biggest examples of Base-Breaking Character from the original series due to her lack of moral compass, never receiving any punishment for her war crimes or trying to make up for them like Ty Lee did, and emotionless girl gimmick. The comics have made her personality even more divisive and she has now officially moved into The Scrappy heap. She still has her fans but they are now reduced to being a Vocal Minority.
  • Her acting as the Honey Trap towards Kei Lo takes her lack of empathy towards to a new level. While many are quick to argue that Mai had an unhealthy relationship with Zuko which led to their multiple break-ups, her one with Kei Lo is much worse. She pretends to be in love with him, treats his affections for her like a game and manipulates him like a tool to achieve her own agendas. Ty Lee calls her out on her manipulation of Kei Lo but she shrugs it off and he never finds out either way. In the end, Kei Lo only breaks it off with her after seeing her acting too intimate with Zuko.
  • She is a Karma Houdini. She is constantly blaming others, like Zuko or Azula, for bad things she does or has done. Zuko asks for forgiveness and tries to become a better ruler, regardless of whether he is actually to blame, but Mai never has to own up for her mistakes. Mai lies to Zuko about her father trying to murder him, and when Zuko finds out, he has to apologize -- not her! Mai knows Zuko's family is in danger and they are suffering greatly by the ordeal her father has put them through, but she refuses to tell Zuko about it to spite him.
  • Mai is even more of a Jerkass than usual in the comic but is given the role of Designated Hero. She was morally ambiguous and cared about nothing but Zuko in the original series, but here she is essentially the main character of the story, which many fans thought was undeserved. She continues to act morally questionable but the plot forces the reader to view her actions as righteous. She makes fun of Zuko's friends and even cracks a joke about him dying. She acts like a major Hypocrite when she claims that Zuko is inconsiderate of other people's feelings even though he shows plenty of understanding towards others and Mai herself was notorious for never caring about anything. She doesn't like it when people do shady things but is fine with doing them herself. Everyone else in the comic seems to agree that she is somehow justified because the plot tells the audience that Mai has undergone off-screen Character Development and is now a better person, even if her actions speak otherwise.

I deleted this because as you pointed out it violates the consistent hated rule, it's a Wall of Text, and I've seen nothing to suggest this isn't a Vocal Hatedom.

I recently looked at the Baldur's Gate YMMV page and found the following examples that I would like some opinions on (mine in bold)

• The Scrappy:
  • Khalid is more or less The Unfavorite in the eyes of the fandom, due to being a weak-willed Generic Guy whose stats were outclassed by other fighters - Kagain was the better tank, while Shar-Teel, Montaron, Ajantis and Coran were better on the damage front, Rasaad's speed makes up for how little equipment he can use, and Dorn is the perfect pack mule. He also had the bad habit of running away because he was very prone to morale failures. Worse yet, he was attached at the hip to Jaheira and the player couldn't get rid of him without losing her as well. That said, his death hit many players hard, no doubt in part because of the effect it had on Jaheira. And players that disliked him still called foul for his sake when the novelization radically changed his personality for worse.

• Quayle was probably the closest runner-up for the "honour" in the first game. All his stats were awful except his Intelligence and his every quote made him sound like a Boisterous Weakling and Insufferable Genius. Players warmed up to him in the second game because of his unselfish tender loving-care for Aerie and an admission by the man himself that he wasn't as nice then as he is now.

• In the second game Anomen stands atop the pile as the most loathed party member several years after official release. Despite his good points, the effort he puts into being a rude, judgemental asshole is incredible.^note At one point he decides that a group of religious zealots burning Viconia at the stake is just desserts (with zero context), disses Cernd for being a druid and protector of nature and asserts he wouldn't know anything about duty (that's just mean) and is ragingly racist towards Mazzy for being a halfling trying to be a paladin (ironically, racial restrictions notwithstanding, Mazzy is more of a paladin than Anomen will ever be) and seldom apologises for his behaviour. It didn't help his case at all that there were planned romances for Haer'Dalis and Valygar, but due to time constraints Anomen was the sole female love interest available outside of mods until the Enhanced Edition, when Dorn, Hexxat and Rasaad came along.

• Abdel Adrian from the novels. Bad enough that he be the main character of those novels, which are extremely firmly Fanon Discontinuity, but he's a big reason for why that's the case. Between being generic in concept (supposedly-good male human fighter), being a gigantic Jerkass and a Designated Hero, fighting like a thug, making everyone around him act like an idiot to make him look more impressive, and receiving a Deus ex Machina or two, the guy would probably be merely unlikeable if he were a protagonist on his own terms. But when the lore surrounding the game pushed him as the canon identity of the protagonist in a game whose entire deal is letting the player carve out their own identity, then you have a recipe for making the fanbase want a character scoured from existence. Put it this way: it's considered an exceptionally forgiving opinion to accept that the protagonist was named Abdel Adrian and that's the only thing they have in common with the novel's Adrian; this very page exclusively refers to them as "Charname." and other sources like Heroes of Baldur's Gate refer them as 'Gorion's Ward'.

• Elminster. Many people feel that he is too powerful in his role in the first game (he is Nigh-Invulnerable) and your Journal entry will glorify him regardless of your attitude. It also doesn't help that his role in the series essentially boils down to giving you tidbits of information that you just risked life and limb to scratch from the remotest corners of the Sword Coast, while barely making any efforts to lift a finger himself.

I think on balance Anomen's probably closer to a Scrappy than a BBC. I don't think I've ever met anyone who likes him.

His BBC entry says:

• Anomen. One camp hates him for being a Jerkass Knight Templar and the only love interest for a female Charname pre-Enhanced Edition. The other acknowledges his manners but contend that he's a very useful party member thanks to his status as a Combat Medic who can Turn Undead, and point out that he becomes less jerkish once his sidequest is complete.

Would it be enough to qualify for BBC/disqualify for Scrappy?

Well, he's too strong to be a Tier Induced Scrappy but he's easily one of if not the most hated characters in the series for being too much of a Jerkass for many people's likings.