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The Scrappy Cleanup

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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#3276: Nov 12th 2019 at 1:26:12 PM

Agreed. Forum approval could lead to easy reactionary factors instead of actually waiting the allotted time. The six months thing is a good thing that guarantees a lot of time for people to think more clearly. It's easy to react to something dumb fairly fast. It's harder to give critical thinking.

Shadow?
MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#3277: Nov 12th 2019 at 2:04:03 PM

Maybe both would be good. Less edit warring, hopefully — although who knows, that hasn't stopped people from putting in inappropriate entries for Complete Monster and Broken Base so maybe not.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#3278: Nov 12th 2019 at 2:08:51 PM

It wouldn't... do much of anything. We'd still have to bring inappropriate entries to this topic either way. Reactionary entries still will exist because people don't want to read the actual trope requirements when adding. This happens all the time.

Cleanup is an inevitable thing. It's better to wait and just remove entries as we find them that don't fit the situation.

Shadow?
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#3280: Nov 12th 2019 at 8:49:11 PM

Now that I see a consensus on this, should I ask someone to set up a crowner for this or make one myself? Do we need any more options than a yes/no on the six month waiting period?

Primis Since: Nov, 2010
#3281: Nov 18th 2019 at 10:12:43 AM

Just wondering if these examples from YMMV.Re Boot The Guardian Code are valid:

  • While most of the human characters are rather divisive, people seem to generally hate the Sourcerer, primarily for being the main villain over Megabyte, but also because his reasons for being evil are vague to almost non-existent.
  • The User in "Mainframe Mania" received more than his own fair share of scorn as a result of being little more than a poorly disguised Take That, Audience! taken too far. The Mind Screw nature of his basement also featuring merchandise from the original series didn't exactly help quell matters all that much.

Everything in these examples is accurate, but the thing is, this show is almost universally reviled, and nobody really "likes" any of the characters, so I'm not sure if The Scrappy even can apply to this show.

The User only shows up in a single episode (generally considered to be the worst of the series), but people really do seem to hate him in particular, though. This example was added pre-commented-out, for some reason.

TVLubber Since: Apr, 2018
#3282: Nov 18th 2019 at 12:26:46 PM

Super Mario World's Oogtar should be removed. Why?

1. He's caused little to no problems, and his reasons for "bullying" Hip and Hop in "A Little Learning" were understandable, considering his encounters with the Koopas and lack of trust for them. Plus, in the Christmas episode, not only did he learn his lesson (the hard way), but he was more than kind enough to give Mario a gift. Plus, I don't see any issue with his speech patterns.

2. Toad wasn't even in the original Super Mario World game, so Oogtar wasn't a Replacement Scrappy, either. Besides, it was Yoshi who replaced Toad, not Oogtar. And seeing as he's listed as the Ensemble Dark Horse, everyone loves Yoshi.

I don't think Oogtar should count as a Scrappy.

Stage7-4 Since: Nov, 2014
#3283: Nov 18th 2019 at 1:05:38 PM

[up][up]While normally if the entire show is full of hated characters I'd agree, but I've heard some people like the returning Megabyte and Hexadecimal despite the show.

But if the only things people can like about the show are two villains (and not even the main villains anymore) then you may still have a point.

Primis Since: Nov, 2010
#3284: Nov 18th 2019 at 5:30:51 PM

[up] From my experience, people like Timothy E. Brummond as Megabyte, and they like that Shirley Millner returns as Hex, but that's about it. Any fondness people have for the characters is just carried over from the original series.

Edited by Primis on Nov 18th 2019 at 6:56:05 AM

PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#3285: Nov 19th 2019 at 6:25:52 PM

From Sonic X

  • Also, Cream because of her obnoxiously shrill, breathy voice, and almost every single episode of her doing absolutely nothing helpful or anything important.

Cream is conflicting. Some places I see her listed as an Ensemble Dark Horse, other places I see her listed under Americans Hate Tingle. At most she seems to be a Base-Breaking Character in the Sonic franchise. Would she be disqualified from the The Scrappy, if she isn't consistently hated despite being what I perceive to be a Base-Breaking Character?

Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 19th 2019 at 10:26:29 AM

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3286: Nov 19th 2019 at 6:48:13 PM

[up] Yeah. Scrappies must be hated by the majority of fans.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#3287: Nov 19th 2019 at 7:11:31 PM

I've seen too much fanart of Cream to call her a Scrappy. Cut.

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PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#3288: Nov 20th 2019 at 9:19:14 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] Yoshi as an Ensemble Dark Horse? I don't think so, since he appears in every episode of that cartoon, and I think some people found him annoying due to his voice. Sorry for not responding to that earlier, I didn't think much of that until now.

From YMMV.The Fairly Odd Parents

  • The Scrappy: As the series underwent an undeniable Seasonal Rot, Flanderization gradually took effect, elevating some characters into shameful caricatures of their former selves:
    • Timmy's Dad was always seen as a Scrappy for some fans. In the earlier seasons, he was this along with his wife, especially when their Parental Neglect became downright abusive, such as leaving him with Vicky or ignoring his feelings or well-being. Then Season 7 came and Timmy's Dad became a divisive character, either he got better than before or got worse due to his many (and mostly unnecessary) appearances. He went on to become further intolerant (along with Crocker) to many when he graduated to Spotlight-Stealing Squad status in Season 9. By the next season, the writers had rewritten him into an idiotic, creepy, Lethally Stupid Manchild who causes destruction wherever he goes.
    • Mr. Crocker is really an odd and unusual case, especially for a character like him, but unfortunately, he became more and more of a borderline example, mainly due to his overexposure and Flanderization in later seasons, especially in Seasons 9 and 10, the fans now see him as a loud and annoying shell of a man instead of the Jerkass Woobie he used to be.

Dear god, I don't even know how to respond to these entries. What do you guys think of cutting these entries? There was also an entry for the character of Sparky but he definitely meets all the requirements for The Scrappy.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 21st 2019 at 4:02:25 PM

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PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#3289: Nov 21st 2019 at 1:54:45 PM

Also, while I was looking to see if the link to the old TheScrappy.Friendship Is Failure page (which I requested to be cut, since I don’t think there was any evidence that fans of that fanfic were putting entries there.) was deleted or not, I came across this:

  • In the original Digimon Adventure 02, most of the Digidestined have a likeable personality and overall tolerable, however in Digimon Adventure 02: The Story We Never Told, all of the Digidestined have reimagined personalities that can either be for better or for worse. However, on the scrappy end of this side are Matt, Mimi, and Cody. Matt is hated for stubbornly denouncing the new generation Digidestined at every opportunity no matter how much they prove themselves. Mimi's Alpha Bitch tendencies got completely flanderized, and she suffers from Aesop Amnesia after the original adventure regarding her dislike of fighting. Cody is hated during Ken's redemption arc for completely refusing to believe that Ken has redeemed himself no matter how much he tried to do, and even attempted to kill him.

I question this example because these are just bad depictions of otherwise liked characters. Does the rule of having to be consistently hated apply to characters adapted into fanfic?

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#3290: Nov 21st 2019 at 3:56:30 PM

[up][up] FOP examples are way too bashy. 90% of those entries can be cut or rewritten. What's the consensus on characters who were once popular but became hated over time? Do they become Base-Breaking Characters, since their earlier behavior would still have fans?

PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#3291: Nov 21st 2019 at 4:21:21 PM

[up] Yea that’s a big problem with the FOP page, since Seasonal Rot has made fans turn on the show. I’ve been trying to clean up the page to remove the complaints and misuse. Timmy’s Dad was already listed as a BBC, so I might just relocate Crocker to there as well.

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Pyromania101 LORD OF FIRE from Where You Aren't! Since: Sep, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
LORD OF FIRE
#3292: Nov 21st 2019 at 6:18:04 PM

Is Sindel from 11 going to be added. From what I saw, the fandom erupted when they read her new backstorY, painting her as a power-hungry bitch who never loved her family, only get title. Her arcade ending, which has been released, is utterly reviled for how it utterly destroys her as a character.

MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#3293: Nov 22nd 2019 at 3:30:56 AM

All of that is more in the vein of They Changed It, Now It Sucks! surely. And that's already on the game's YMMV page.

PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#3294: Nov 26th 2019 at 7:09:06 PM

YMMV.Stitchs Great Escape

The Scrappy: The show's version of Stitch himself. Since the attraction is set up to be a prequel to the original Lilo & Stitch film, Disney had to combine elements of the scary, crude pre-character development Experiment 626 with elements of the silly, fun-loving post-character development Stitch for the blue alien's portrayal in the ride. Unfortunately, this resulted in a portrayal that had the worst traits of both sides to him. Audiences couldn't tell whether they're supposed to be afraid of him or laugh along with him, and instead found him just plain annoying and gross.

Anyone agree that this should be cut since this breaks the consistently hated rule?

I also see Americans Hate Tingle on this page, which is also misuse, since Stitch originated from an American company (Disney)

Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 26th 2019 at 11:14:05 AM

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PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#3295: Nov 27th 2019 at 7:00:47 PM

YMMV.Azure Striker Gunvolt

The Scrappy: Copen. Not only is he an unlikable Jerkass who spouts religious spiel to justify his actions, but his irrational, racist hatred of Adepts gets taken to Idiot Ball levels when he tries to kill Joule, who is clearly and completely innocent and was Sumeragi's Unwitting Pawn, just because she is an Adept. You'd be hard-pressed to find anybody who didn't feel great after beating him up in his boss fights. Bonus material softens his characterization a bit when it's discovered that an Azure Striker is actually the one who killed his father, likely being the cause of his distrust for Gunvolt despite their similar goals. The sequel gives him vastly more dynamic characterization and Promoted to Playable status, saving his character for a lot of fans.

Judging from the description, I think you weren't supposed to like him? (The example writes him like he's a villain, if he's supposed to be good or anti-heroic, we don't know that from reading the example by itself) Then someone at Inti just decided to take his character in a different direction to make him more heroic. What do you guys think?

Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 27th 2019 at 11:08:30 AM

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Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#3296: Nov 29th 2019 at 11:26:33 AM

[up]That you get to beat him up further support it's intentional. Cutting.

MathsAngelicVersion Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music from Gensokyo Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music
#3297: Nov 30th 2019 at 8:19:19 AM

From YMMV.Diary Of A Wimpy Kid:

  • Susan and Frank Heffley. The former constantly embarrasses his eldest sons while showing such an apathetic reaction to it, and the latter is shallow who is so obsessive over his appearances that he once planned on shipping Greg to a military school to be molded into a person who would be more to his liking and look good in public. They both also spoil their son Manny to death, and they both come off as Author Avatars for Jeff Kinney regarding his preachy claims about modern technology and adolescence altogether.

Is this valid? These characters are indeed a bit preachy in-universe, but I never got the impression that they were Kinney mouthpieces I was supposed to side with. I also doubt that they're hated enough to qualify.

Grotadmorv Got a taste for scotch and abusive guys from Felix Hagan City, Family Avenue (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
Got a taste for scotch and abusive guys
#3298: Nov 30th 2019 at 12:12:22 PM

[up] Frank isn't "consistently hated"; I think The Last Straw is just a "never live it down"-type moment for him. Susan doesn't get much hate except for maaaaybe Old School. Cut both of them, neither are widely nor consistently hated.

The pig can certainly stay because of the sheer amount of complaints I've seen about it and how much people hate when it returns in a new book. Even in Double Down, it's just there to lead to a squicky scene and cause problems.

Manny is mainly hated for his actions in Cabin Fever, which is a Never Live It Down for him. I personally think he got better in the following books, so delete.

Make it so we never die, and take the pain away
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#3299: Nov 30th 2019 at 2:36:00 PM

Deleting all but the pig; I'll move another example to the main page as In-Universe.

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MathsAngelicVersion Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music from Gensokyo Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music
#3300: Nov 30th 2019 at 4:18:04 PM

I agree that the pig should be kept. Unlike Manny, Susan and Frank, who had Never Live It Down moments, the pig's appearances were consistently criticized.


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