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The Scrappy Cleanup

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MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015
#2526: Aug 23rd 2018 at 8:20:03 PM

Maybe you guys answered this already, but I don't have time to click through the whole thread. Is there a reason why groups of characters can't be scrappies?

mrbits Since: May, 2009
#2527: Aug 23rd 2018 at 8:34:04 PM

[up]I would also like to know this. Especially in cases where the group is functionally just one character/entity (such as Zorn and Thorn in Final Fantasy 9)

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#2528: Aug 24th 2018 at 11:41:12 AM

If you can argue for each and every individual in a group fitting the trope, you can argue for the group fitting the trope. But if anyone in the group doesn't fit the trope, the group doesn't fit the trope. We don't generalise and say, "well, but most fit". Be specific.

Zorn and Thorn have their fans to my knowledge. They're annoying, but they're meant to be annoying. But for those two you can probably argue that anything that applies to one of them applies to the other. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone make any difference between them at all. That's context that needs to be included, though.

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RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#2529: Aug 24th 2018 at 1:15:17 PM

Again, bringing up Viletta since I'm not sure anyone saw it.

And bringing up an example from Total Drama:

  • While originally a Base-Breaking Character, Zoey was elevated/demoted to this by the time All-Stars finished airing. The reasons?
    • Despite the writers acting as though her post-merge immunity run was caused by her Taking a Level in Badass, in actuality it was mainly due to Mal tampering with the challenges, making her victories seem hollow and unfair.
    • The subplot of her figuring out Mal's identity drags on for an entire season, making her seem like she's Too Dumb to Live and resulting in Arc Fatigue. note 
    • Despite having been in nearly every Revenge and All-Stars episode she gets virtually no Character Development (save for her Commando phase), and still remains exceptionally bland.
    • Other characters keep going out of their way to talk about how amazing she is, while she continuously gets victories handed to her with no explanation other than favoritism.

Most of the complaints listed here stem from All Stars, except All Stars messed with everyone's characterizations and is typically regarded as the worst season of the series. If the complaints are mainly from there, wouldn't that be a bit odd putting when everyones characterizations that season was complained about? I still find Zoey fans too, so shouldn't she be returned to Base-Breaking Character?

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#2530: Aug 24th 2018 at 5:02:23 PM

Found this on Video Power: Johnny- if the co-host/announcer (Terry Lee) is hosting better than the host, we've got problems. Here's a montage of his weirdness and/or stupidity.

Does it sound valid?

IPP Wick Check created.
ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#2531: Aug 24th 2018 at 7:47:35 PM

[up] That entry is a Zero-Context Example and violates Weblinks Are Not Examples. It should at least be commented out.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#2532: Aug 25th 2018 at 2:42:02 AM

It also relies on the "logic" that if I'm better than you, you must be awful.

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Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#2533: Aug 25th 2018 at 11:35:51 AM

RollerCoaster Tycoon:

  • The Scrappy:
    • The Stand-Up Steel Roller Coaster. Many people familiar with the game will refuse to design a roller coaster that is this because the Intensity and Nausea ratings are abnormally high compared to the Excitement rating. Unless you are making a simulated theme park, you know how to design one well, or you are playing Adrenaline Heights, you should stay away from this one, especially seeing that there are better options such as the Steel Roller Coaster. Even the Stand-Up Twister Roller Coaster (although more expensive) is significantly better.
    • The Heartline Twister Roller Coaster. It may look rather interesting, but it is nigh impossible to make a good one...a decent roller coaster of most types might have an excitement rating of 7.00 or so, with the lower bound of practicality around 6.00 and the potential of getting into the 8.xx or 9.xx range. The Heartline Twister might give you an excitement rating of 4.00 if you do a good job on one. And it's one of only two types of roller coaster that do not allow turning. Yes, you cannot build turns, which means the entire track has to be in a straight line, underneath or above existing parts of track if need be. Might also border on Cool, but Inefficient because of its unique design.
    • Any ride where the cars/trains can fly off the track and crash. The Bobsled, Wooden Side-Friction, and Wooden Reverser roller coasters are notorious for this, as are the Water Slide and Ghost Train.
      • One must be very careful when designing and testing a water slide, as the speed of one is much different while testing as opposed to when guests actually ride on it. You have to keep your eye on the ride to make sure that the ride goes as safely as possible while boats don't get stuck lest one finds an entire row of boats going 0 MPH.
    • The Ferris Wheel. Near universally disliked because the guests wait too long to even get on the ride and they'll complain that they want to get off even if you have it set for one full rotation.
    • A well known problem with many Log Flume rides (particularly the pre-built choice you're given to build in RCT1) in the first two games is that the logs are set up on a five-second departure timer for each log that leaves the station. The problem is that because of the length of the ride, the logs run out too quickly and you end up with an empty station for a good two minutes before the first log finally returns to the station; causing the people waiting in line to get angry, and even leave the line, out of anger for waiting too long in line. This can be fixed by lengthening the departure timer to 20-25 seconds, but just having to change it every single time you build a Log Flume ride can come off as a major annoyance.
    • The "Runaway Plumber" underground roller coaster in Katie's World is perhaps one of the most disliked pre-built rides from the original game. It is EXTREMELY prone to crashing, and because it's completely underground, underneath an area of land you technically don't even own, it's almost impossible to rebuild after the crash. But there is some good news regarding this case. It does make for a decent roller-coaster that can be rebuilt in other levels, and is completely indoors, making it profitable in the rain.
    • The "Force Nine" ("Hurricane" in the original UK version) roller coaster in Ivory Towers isn't so lucky. It's responsible for all the puke staining the park at the start, and no matter what anyone does, its nausea rating will still be through the roof. Players often demolish the whole thing as one of the solutions to getting the park all cleaned up. Suspended roller coasters in general often have unnecessarily high nausea ratings.
    • Guests that don't pay in "Pay for ride ticket" scenarios. Some players even stalk anyone who thinks of leaving without paying and make them suffer or drown!
    • Good luck trying to build an effective Steel Mini Roller Coaster if you're playing with the original Roller Coaster Tycoon (without the expansion packs). The ride doesn't allow banked curves at all, making the ride unforgiving and forcing you to use very wide turns. Thankfully Loopy Landscapes allows the ride to have banked curves.
    • Boat Hire sometimes gets this reaction for several reasons. For one, it suffers from a Game-Breaking Bug that sometimes causes boats to get stuck as they try to re-enter the station which would, in turn, get every other boat trying to get into the station stucknote , and causes players to restructure the ride until it works properly. Another reason is because of guests who occasionally go out too far in a vast water area, and can't return to the station which leads to many complaints about not being able to get off the ride. Then there's the fact that most ride improvements are dedicated to this lousy ride because of the amount of boat types it has.
    • The two expansion packs for the second game, Wacky Worlds and Time Twister, receive a lot of hatred by many communities. This may be due to the fact that the scenery is out of place in the game or the lack of any true changes in gameplay. As a result, many players will avoid the expansions like the plague. The fact that they're completely optional in RCT Classic is also worth mentioning, as most people will just avoid buying those.
    • Prebuilt rides in general tend to cause issues, such as the aforementioned Hurricane from Ivory Towers for having a sky-high nausea rating and the water slide from Aqua Park for being the worst designed water slide that stalls and crashes all the time. Longtime players will usually start a scenario by demolishing all of the rides because of the reliability issues, even if it'd cause more problems in the long run.
    • 3D Cinemas, Haunted Houses, Crooked Houses, and Circus Shows if you're playing a "pay per ride" (this happens to include every single Loopy Landscapes park as well) scenario, usually because once a year or so pass for these rides, their value will drop significantly to the point where no guests will want to ride them until the point where they're absolutely free, even if it's raining (this plays hard in the rule if you charge a ride based on its Excitement rating). Usually, by that point, you would already be reeling in money from more profitable roller coasters, so it's not too much of an issue. Thankfully, in "Pay to Enter" scenarios alongside scenarios where no money is involved, guests will ride them regardless.

None of these are actual characters, the closest being guests that don't pay (which is a group).

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#2534: Aug 25th 2018 at 12:19:23 PM

I don't think the devs want players to like non-paying guests. Cut all of them.

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AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#2535: Aug 25th 2018 at 1:52:10 PM

They're also all whining about minor game mechanic stuff. Chainsaw.

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MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#2536: Aug 25th 2018 at 3:04:17 PM

Found these on the Bomberman franchise.

Main YMMV: The Gold Bomber from the Land games is not well liked at all.

Bomberman Land: Gold Bomber is not well liked at all due to his arrogance and cowardice.

Bomberman Hero: Princess Millian, who's more or less Bomberman's answer to Princess Peach.

Bomberman Jetters: Shout is a witch with capital B who abuses Bomberman at the drop of a hat.


I think I'll cut Milli due to a lack of context, Goldie could have his write ups merged and expanded, as for Shout, you be the judge.

Edited by MasterJoseph on Aug 25th 2018 at 3:06:01 AM

IPP Wick Check created.
Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#2537: Aug 25th 2018 at 3:10:29 PM

Jetters sounds like it wasn't meant to be likeable.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#2538: Aug 25th 2018 at 3:16:45 PM

The Shout example lacks context about anything that supports that the character is supposed ot be likable for those traits.

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MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#2539: Aug 25th 2018 at 4:10:57 PM

What about Goldie?

IPP Wick Check created.
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#2540: Aug 25th 2018 at 4:27:36 PM

"Not well liked" isn't sufficient for Scrappy.

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RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#2541: Aug 26th 2018 at 4:40:18 PM

From Splatoon 2

  • Replacement Scrappy:

    • While nobody outright hates the new shopkeepers, some are upset that some of the old shopkeepers didn't return in one way or another. Jelfonzo got the worst of it for being identical to Jelonzo aside from having a different speech gimmick (Antiquated Linguistics vs. Jelonzo's Engrish), while Bisk got the least of it for a) just generally being very chill and likeable, and b) Crusty Sean retiring from shoe selling and serving experience & money boosting food instead.
    • Pearl and Marina are this to people who liked Callie and Marie, seeing the replacements as having little personality or depth compared to the Squid Sisters, especially since they're not secret agents and have no roles in the base campaign, which gave the Squid Sisters more characterization. That said, much of this seems to have been alleviated by Octo Expansion, which gave Off the Hook significantly more characterization and had them play a major role in the final boss fight.
  • Rescued from the Scrappy Heap:
    • The Sting Ray, often hated for its slow aim and limited mobility, is more well-received in Salmon Run, mainly because its fire can pierce through nearly all of the Boss Salmonidsnote , including the Demonic Spider Flyfish, and the hordes of Chums and Smallfries charging straight towards you. However, what redeems the Sting Ray in most players' eyes is its use against the Mothership. The Mothership phase is notorious for having Golden Eggs be only obtainable by splatting the flying Chinooks as well as being the only time that the team can lose those eggs already in the basket, thanks to the Mothership's vacuum funnel. The Sting Ray not only repels the Mothership's advances in rapid succession, but its beam also destroys the Chinooks spawning on top of the Mothership, dropping Golden Eggs onto the ground for the picking. Because of this phenomena, many work crews find themselves doubling the quota number with ease. Due to this, the Sting Ray is often saved for this phase by most players and many cries of "Booyah!" can be heard once it's deployed against the Mothership. It can also be handy during the Glowflies wave, where enemy movement can be predicted easily with enough know-how. The downside is that it's highly situational, unlike the Inkjet and Splashdown which can be activated at almost any time and are godsends for escaping from and clearing out hordes of Salmonids in all directions instead of simply forwards). It later got rescued for competitive multiplayer after version 1.3.0 allowed it to extend its radius after firing it continuously for at least 1.5 seconds, making it easier to hit opponents.
    • Also, to whatever extent Pearl was a Scrappy to start with, Octo Expansion completely torpedoed any perception of her as one. As she actually gets her characterization fleshed out, we finally get to see her fierce loyalty to Marina and desire to keep her safe, and it's made crystal clear she's a good friend and wants Marina to live happily on the surface, pretty much silencing her critics immediately. Her getting some of the best lines in the game and engaging Cuttlefish in rap battles only helps seal the deal.
    • Octo Expansion also manages to do this, bizarrely enough, to the single player mode of the original S2 release because it provides some additional context that makes the climax of the campaign come across in a new light. In the original campaign itself, Callie being squidnapped and mind-controlled to help Octavio in his boss fight, with said boss fight being in a more obvious concert stadium, just comes across as the developers looking for a way to one-up the previous, well-liked fight with Octavio in S1 without using new characters. Octo Expansion, though, makes it clear that the first Squid Sisters "concert" that was said S1 fight was a huge turning point for the Octolings because it undermined a lot of the propaganda the Octarians had been running on for a century. Octavio's set-up here thus isn't random - he very specifically targeted a Squid Sister, both to prevent "Calamari Inkantation" from being performed again and to use a figure many Octolings had fallen in love with to try and reinforce the old mores and cut down a growing feeling of Inkling integration at the roots, and deliberately set up a big concert for that purpose. And thanks to Agent 4, this whole plan blows up in his face spectacularly. It also gives a explanation for why his fight is mostly the same as Splatoon 1's final boss; on top of many Octolings abandoning his cause, his head tech genius, Marina, was among them. With a severe lack of engineering power, he was forced to reuse his old tech for the battle. The new context has given many fans a better appreciation for what S2's base campaign was trying to do (though they still wish the campaign itself had made all this a bit clearer).
    • A July 2018 balance patch gave a much-needed buff to the Tenta Missiles, widely regarded as one of the worst specials up to this point. In addition to being able to lock onto the Rainmaker barrier, the special is now only locked to four missiles per target when targeting three or more enemies. When locking onto two enemies, that number is increased to five, and locking onto one enemy increases it to ten missiles per target. While still not as hard to avoid as other specials, this buff gave decent sets held down by Tenta Missiles (such as the Splat Dualies, Slosher, and Mini Splatling) a bit more viability.

Pearl, Marina, and the shopkeepers are never Scrappies to begin with. Scrappy doesn't apply to weapons and story mode (which isn't even universally hated).

Continue writing our story of peace.
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#2544: Aug 26th 2018 at 8:10:32 PM

[up][up][up] While none of the Replacement Scrappy entries nor the Rescued from the Scrappy Heap entries about the story mode and Pearl are valid, I believe the RFTSH entries about the weapons can be kept. I believe RFTSH can apply to anything on the Scrappy Index.

Edited by ADrago on Aug 26th 2018 at 11:14:19 AM

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#2545: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:33:18 PM

TheScrappy.Anime And Manga:

Harry has next to no explanation why he's hated, and who's Thomas? Leena has nothing to suggest it's unintentional. Cut?

KingLyger Multiverse Madness from Lost in Forever (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Multiverse Madness
#2546: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:48:31 PM

I would like to consider adding this to the Scrappy page for the Tales Series of video games.

  • From Tales of Berseria, there is Bienfu. Ostensibly Magilou's malakhim, he's The Load of the group, contributing nothing to the story aside from a few bits of information that other characters already know of, and that's almost entirely in optional skits. Also, Bienfu is the game's pervert character. And while perverts are a Recurring Element in Tales, Bienfu is neither a Covert Pervert nor a Chivalrous Pervert, instead just straight-up wanting to hook up with Eleanor and any other pretty girl he lays his eyes on, which comes across as rather creepy. Bienfu's status as The Load even gets mentioned in the game proper, as Laphicet points out in a "World of Cardboard" Speech that he can't think of anything that Bienfu contributed. Bienfu also turns out to be The Mole of the group, which flings him straight into Millstone territory, placed under a geas to spy on Magilou and her crew for the Abbey. All told, Bienfu contributes nothing useful, his character comes off as annoying instead of cute, and his status as a Butt-Monkey seems rather deserved.

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dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#2547: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:49:49 PM

[up]I'm going to say no, since it reads like someone has a personal axe to grind with the character, and it doesn't actually provide concrete evidence that the character is hated by the vast majority of the fanbase.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#2548: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:50:00 PM

Hmmm, Splatoon 2 is locked. Can anyone call a mod?

Edited by RAlexa21th on Aug 28th 2018 at 12:49:31 PM

Continue writing our story of peace.
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#2549: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:56:53 PM

[up]No need, I handled it. It's the "Spurious Lock Bug."

If you see something like that, go to the History page and see if the lock icon is there as well. If you see the Edit button, click it, then click Cancel. The page should be unlocked.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Aug 28th 2018 at 12:59:45 PM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#2550: Aug 28th 2018 at 1:02:00 PM

[up][up][up][up] All that sounds like his hated is intended, so no.

[up][up] Not locked last I checked.

TheScrappy.Video Games:

  • Monster Hunter:
    • Good luck finding anyone who likes the Plesioth. For one thing, it spends half of the battle in water forcing you to lure it out. The other half? It either immediately rushes back into said water or uses one of its numerous annoying moves. Of special note is the infamous "hipcheck" which the name alone is enough to cause players to foam at the mouth in rage.
    • Small monsters such as the Bullfango, Jaggi, and the like certainly fall under this. Mostly because they love to attack at the most inappropriate of times. This includes when you're gathering items or trying to fight a much larger and more dangerous monster.
    • The Chameleos is generally disliked by fans of the games due to its habit of being invisible at least half the time. Oh, and it also likes to steal items.
    • Like the Chameleos, the Gypceros also has the lovely habit of stealing items. It also loves to temporarily blind players by flashing them with its crest. And, if that wasn't annoying enough, it also has a habit of pretending to be dead only to get up and surprise attack the opponent. It's little wonder it ends up on many players' "worst monsters" list.
    • The Congalala also is hated by fans for several reasons. Its design is laughable at best. Not helping matters is how it fights...primarily by farting and throwing its own poop. And, to top it all off, it's not even that challenging of a monster. Fans of the series generally find it to be little more than a poorly-conceived Joke Character.

These violate the no gropes rule and most hate is for gameplay as opposed to characterization. Cut? And my Zoids examples above?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Aug 28th 2018 at 1:02:11 AM


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