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Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#62301: Apr 20th 2023 at 6:17:58 PM

[up] Ooo, that would have been cool.

Personally I would have the Diamonds leave to Walk the Earth after healing the corrupted gems, showing them trying to understand just why Pink cared for the planet so dearly, rather than them just fucking off back to Homeworld

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mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#62302: Apr 20th 2023 at 6:56:04 PM

I kind of like that they're still bad at actually respecting Earth and Steven gets frustrated with it. I just wish they leaned more into that, I guess. I also think it really just boils down to CYM needing another season for buildup.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#62303: Apr 21st 2023 at 2:46:11 PM

I would have made a more self-contained ending or an And the Adventure Continues ending, given the show had a very limited number of episodes left. I would not have even touched the question of a Diamond redemption unless CN gave more time to have it done right. I agree the conflict should have just been convincing Blue and Yellow to stop threatening the Earth.

The Movie could have been about redeeming Yellow and Blue (or just Blue), and Future about getting to White (and possibly Yellow) and changing her mind.

Edited by PhiSat on Apr 21st 2023 at 3:49:14 AM

Oissu!
HeyMikey Since: Jul, 2015
#62304: Apr 21st 2023 at 4:52:25 PM

Really, that seems to be the common link to all this is time. Time to better understand the motives of all the Diamonds. Time to have a chance to formulate a longer term strategy on how to interact with each of them. Time to give them a chance to slowly shift in demeanor as they're being talk through all of this. Time for them to internalize their new change in perspective and time to better see how this shift in perspective produces tangible change. That the time that was taken away from them was so abrupt did not do them any favors.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#62305: Apr 21st 2023 at 5:51:26 PM

Not to mention that in addition to the rushed ending, the next time we see them two years have passed in-universe, making their shifts seem even more abrupt.

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VapourSoulOS Herald of Lunar Tierce from You really expect me to know that? Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Herald of Lunar Tierce
#62306: Apr 22nd 2023 at 3:04:30 PM

The amount of Common Knowledge surrounding this show is amazing. For example, the idea that Rose Quartz started a war and played both sides makes remarkably little sense when you actually think about it. It's established that the Diamonds took Pink's colony away from her so she wasn't even the one giving orders to gems on Earth.

When Pink became Rose Quartz, she lost all her Diamond privileges and would've had to make do with whatever gems she could convince to join her. If anything during a war, "Pink"'s gems would be following Great Diamond Authority orders because Pink Diamond was nothing more than a figurehead for the Diamonds/scapegoat for the Crystal Gems at this point.

The only reason for Rose to orchestrate a war that lead to countless deaths and corruption of every gem on Earth would have to be out of pure sadism and sociopathy, neither of which would be in character for Pink Diamond or Rose Quartz.

"Punishment is not the answer. Punishment is easy. It's lazy. Redemption is hard. Redemption makes you work."-Skulduggery Pleasant
VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#62307: Apr 22nd 2023 at 3:13:03 PM

[up] Misinformation from non-fans has done irreperable damage to any discussion about the show outside of fandom circles

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#62308: Apr 22nd 2023 at 4:09:37 PM

Oooo this reminds me, Cartoonishi released a video recently discussing the greater internet's flanderization of Steven as a character:

Great video honestly. He doesn't like how the show ended up but still talks about Steven fairly, and how everyone has unfairly turned him into a crying wimp.

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PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#62309: Apr 22nd 2023 at 4:12:56 PM

[up][up][up]I mean, if all Pink's gems were like Jasper and had Undying Loyalty, and she could have ordered them to fight Yellow and Blue's forces off if she'd just asserted herself as Pink Diamond rather than playing pretend as Rose.

Pink really had an issue with just winging things and not thinking them through, though.

Edited by PhiSat on Apr 22nd 2023 at 5:13:10 AM

Oissu!
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#62310: Apr 22nd 2023 at 4:20:24 PM

I person think Pink believed it would be unethical to order her court to rebel. Bismuth's account of how Rose recruited her and Pearl's hologram in Rose's Scabbard seems to indicate that her Gems ***choosing*** to follow her was important to Rose. Keep in mind Pearl was literally made for no purpose other than serving Pink but she clearly was given a choice anyway.

Edited by RhymeBeat on Apr 22nd 2023 at 7:22:35 AM

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#62311: Apr 22nd 2023 at 4:22:29 PM

Oh, definitely. The question becomes whether it's more ethical to order her court to rebel against the other Diamonds or let the forces who joined her out of their own free will suffer when she could have averted that by making the Gems they were fighting against join them.

Oissu!
HeyMikey Since: Jul, 2015
#62312: Apr 22nd 2023 at 5:19:17 PM

Would it have been ethical to wage a war to abolish slavery, with an army that comprises a decent chunk of unwilling slaves? That's probably the main thing about why she ran the war as Rose Quartz, instead of as Pink Diamond. She intended to base her side off certain ideals, that it's for the defense of Earth, and that all gems had the freedom to self-actualize. Waging this war as Pink would probably taint that second part.

And it's not like having all her subjects as Pink fighting with her would have necessarily meant a quick end to the war, only bolster her forces. She still would have to contend with potentially all of the other forces Blue, Yellow, and White would potentially bring to the table. It's also unpredictable how Blue, Yellow, and White would have reacted if they were fighting Pink, instead of an upstart Quartz. There is the implication that they didn't bring about their full forces to crush the rebellion as a sort of chance for Pink to show herself a true Diamond. Who knows what would have happened if they feel that this has turned into some rebellious temper tantrum after they finally trusted her with her own colony. Unfortunately, despite all of Pink's powers, seeing the future isn't one of them.

VapourSoulOS Herald of Lunar Tierce from You really expect me to know that? Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Herald of Lunar Tierce
#62313: Apr 22nd 2023 at 7:07:43 PM

Another thing to note is that Rose revealing she was actually Pink Diamond would've only ended poorly anyway. Assuming that the Great Diamond Authority's forces wouldn't dismiss it as a trick and shatter Rose Quartz on the spot, it's likely that it would've ended with her forces and her former subjects feeling betrayed.

And that's before Pink is reported to the Diamonds, who are likely going to be pissed that she started a war which lead to the death of many perfectly good gems. The Crystal Gems would likely be rounded up and shattered as testament to the empire's superior might, and maybe White Diamond would've forced Pink to shatter her own allies as punishment for starting the war to begin with.

"Punishment is not the answer. Punishment is easy. It's lazy. Redemption is hard. Redemption makes you work."-Skulduggery Pleasant
darknessRising Since: Jun, 2012
#62314: Apr 26th 2023 at 3:50:04 AM

[up] THIS.

Also another thing that fans seem to forget is the Gem Rejuvenator.

Remember what Bismuth said

  • "Homeworld used to use these things on Gems that started steppin' out of line. One hit with this... you're back to how they made you."

As in, this was a standard practice amongst them.

THINK ABOUT THAT.

Pink knows about those rejuvenators and it's possible that she thought, should they somehow capture her as Pink, they'd immediately use it on her, reset her to the good little Diamond who will destroy the Earth for them.

And no one would bat an eye

After all, it's standard practice for gens who get out of line to be rejuvenated...

However, while there's only ONE Pink Diamond, it's established that there are hundreds if not THOUSANDS of Rose Quartzes

That's the biggest reason for her alias. The Diamonds would be looking for a Rose Quartz, which there are many. And it's not like they bothered to properly recognize and or memorize which Rose is who.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#62315: Apr 26th 2023 at 11:33:51 AM

The Rejuvenator is a dumb retconned in element anyways. No rebellion should have been able to get anywhere near underway if they were widespread. At the very least, they should have been standard issue for Homeworld gems.

Though the Rejuvenators also seem pretty ineffective, it only took a few hours for the gems to all get their memories back.

Also, I don't think they existed during the Rebellion at all? Only Peridot knew what one was, the Crystal Gems had no idea. They may have been made afterwards to curb dissidence.

EDIT: Bismuth knew what one was too, but that's just confusing. How did the Crystal Gems (minus Amethyst, her lack of knowledge is justified) not know to dodge it? They all fought on the front lines, there's no reason Bismuth should have known what a Rejuvenator was but Garnet and Pearl didn't know. Huge Idiot Ball moment for the sake of the movie's plot.

Edited by PhiSat on Apr 26th 2023 at 12:40:15 PM

Oissu!
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#62316: Apr 26th 2023 at 12:05:25 PM

I imagine rejuvenators were in the form of rejuvenation chambers at war time. We see one in The Shell. Maybe making them portable was a modern invention.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
HeyMikey Since: Jul, 2015
#62317: Apr 26th 2023 at 4:31:31 PM

Tech for the Gems do evolve. Previously, there weren't faster than light ships. Faster than light travel first required sub-faster than light speed ships to travel to the intended colony point and build a warp pad where their staging area was.

Any large scale operation will either have an entire armada travel in one large group to create a self-sustaining point of operation where they land, or send a scouting party to create a warp pad, and teleport their needed materials.

During the rebellion, everyone used melee weapons or light weapons that resembled colonial time armaments (like cannons and what-not). The best sword crafted by a master blacksmith could cut through gem forms in the hands of a skilled user. Four thousand years later, that becomes the destabilizer which can be used by any low-level grunt, even non-combatants.

Rejuvenation as a technology probably existed in Bismuth's time, but would require capture (like the Pearl Shells where the rejuvenation capability was a slow process that took minutes and required them to stand still in a single chamber, that can be busted out of by someone suitably strong enough (it took two fused Pearls to do it). Now in comes Spinel after their millenia of technological advancement and it's hand held and instantaneous. It's not a hard idea to wrap your head around. Remember, anything Bismuth or the Gem's know about and what's on Homeworld will be separated by 4 millenia of development. 4 Millenia ago, we had a concept of gun powder weapons. But they would never in their wildest dreams consider hand held automatics.

You also have to consider that between the end of Steven Universe and the start of the movie it has been two years. That's two years where the Crystal Gems also split up to bring about Era 3. So what is modern and what isn't, the Crystal gems probably divided their attention amongst a multitude of topics. It's the Captain America thing where he's been gone for near a century, so he would have to play catch up. Bismuth could have learned about rejuvenators doing her thing, but the gems didn't because they didn't happen across it.

Edited by HeyMikey on Apr 26th 2023 at 4:54:56 AM

akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#62318: Apr 26th 2023 at 10:05:43 PM

Don't forget, when Lapis made it back to Homeworld after the millennia of imprisonment, she got a major cultureshock due to the changes that happened (some of which terrified her), to the point where she basically said she barely recognized the place anymore.

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#62319: Jun 27th 2023 at 7:34:09 PM

Crying Breakfast Friends was the best Show Within a Show ever, only Azura the Witch from Owl House comes close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhkiUpNVNs0

EDIT: The video is Steven at his cutest, watching an episode.

Edited by AegisP on Jun 27th 2023 at 7:35:58 AM

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#62320: Jun 27th 2023 at 8:40:50 PM

One element is clear you can see is homeworld empire have change between rose time and "today", before all their bulding have a stone organic material and look that feel clasic and beautifull while "today" all have more glassy and synthetic look on them.

As for why rose was rose...yeah is a ideological component here, rose belive very much on "You HAVE to chose to be yourself, I CANT tell you" she want follower and not subject. You can see her main weakness is rather not seeing that sometimes not telling is as daming as telling.

"Great video honestly. He doesn't like how the show ended up but still talks about Steven fairly, and how everyone has unfairly turned him into a crying wimp. "

I see this in latin american fandom page a thing to mock steven as the guy who cry and try to hard to be preachy, some of it is backlash to the finale, some to the show and some are fans of more tradicional shows(read: were the MC beat the bad guy in cathartic fury) finally venting their fury over it

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#62321: Jun 28th 2023 at 4:30:04 AM

Steven is the kind of person who could probably cry a sea of tears like Alice in wonderland

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
KaabiiFan13 Since: Apr, 2022
#62322: Jul 9th 2023 at 5:56:52 PM

Does anyone else remember how people used to make comparisons between this show and Puella Magi Madoka Magica? It admittedly wasn't hard, given how Gems are mystical feminine beings whose "souls" are in their gem ornaments and not their bodies, and have a chance of becoming monsters through a kind of Corruption, like the latter's magical girls.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#62323: Jul 9th 2023 at 6:03:16 PM

I never saw that one. I saw a lot of Land of the Lustrous comparisons, but the two are diametrically opposed in idealism vs cynicism.

Oissu!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#62324: Jul 9th 2023 at 6:05:17 PM

[up]That series is very much a "madoka version of SU" in many ways really

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#62325: Jul 9th 2023 at 6:38:53 PM

I'd say Land of the Lustrous gets a lot more bleak and depressing than Madoka. Madoka at least got a Bittersweet Ending.

It's funny how many superficial similarities Land of the Lustrous and Steven Universe share, given I doubt either creator knew of the other series.

Oissu!

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