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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59626: Oct 14th 2019 at 7:00:07 PM

Maybe I wouldn't have phrased it like that, but I do get thinking this is one of those situations that, if the genders were reversed, the reaction would likely to be pretty different.

You could probably have a ton of discussions and arguments about why that is, or what it says about society, or gender roles, or sexism that I don't want to/maybe aren't the best qualified to go into.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#59627: Oct 14th 2019 at 9:50:19 PM

Also the idea that what Pink did wasn't terrible just because Spinel was annoying is a pretty bad take.
Playing down Pink's culpability does not do the "pile of emotional red flags" interpretation any favors. It comes off trying to retroactively justify Pink's mistreatment of Spinel with her even-worse reaction. It's like saying Lapis eventually getting back at Jasper and-then-some made the latter's instigation less severe.

Calling Spinel "dangerously clinging" is really forgetting how her life revolved around Pink because it was made to be like that, which is exactly what Pink never understood.

I've seen how people react to male characters in similar situations and it's pretty much exactly the same.
Spinel's behavior was neither sexual nor coming from a position of societal favor. There's not really much of a gender politics angle.

More to the point, if a character would be thought of less favorably if they were male, why assume that response is the more appropriate one?

if the genders were reversed
With Spinel and Pink, or Spinel and Steven?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#59628: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:03:00 PM

Rebecca herself talked about how toxic Spinel is though, it should be said.

Oh really when?
VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#59629: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:39:54 PM

Let's be honest, it's Both Sides Have a Point for their actions, but neither of the people on each side are 100% good people. (Tho, Spinel was waaaay worse in that respect)

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#59630: Oct 14th 2019 at 10:54:37 PM

[up][up][up] Spinel and Steven, I think.

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jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The One Who Knows Many Things
#59631: Oct 15th 2019 at 2:12:13 PM

In the Barnes & Noble Book Signings of Steven Universe: Tale of Steven, Rebecca Sugar has answered the questions regarding of how Spinel reformed, how did she get the injector and Rejuvanator and how she was able to travel Earth so fast. Here's Roundtable talking about it:

Edited by jouXIII on Oct 16th 2019 at 1:20:02 PM

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DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#59632: Oct 15th 2019 at 2:23:26 PM

Characterizing Spinel as "clingy" is ignoring the fact that she was effectively created to be Pink Diamond's slave/toy. It's not like she just chose to be obsessive about her; it was both her purpose and her legal duty that she couldn't have abandoned even if she'd wanted to.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59633: Oct 15th 2019 at 2:27:52 PM

I like the theory he brings up that Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl all self-poofed from grief and reformed immediately after Steven was born as a direct result of crushing sadness from losing Rose.

Another thing of note is that Sugar mentioned that there were apparently many scenes they had to cut from the movie for time, which makes me wonder if we might get an Director's Cut version of the movie at some point.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#59634: Oct 15th 2019 at 2:37:50 PM

Pearl was shown with her debut outfit while Rose was pregnant, though. But considering how much of a wreck she was... I could totally still see her do it, she just reformed while Rose was still pregnant.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Oct 15th 2019 at 5:40:27 AM

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thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#59635: Oct 15th 2019 at 3:55:18 PM

Rebecca herself talked about how toxic Spinel is though, it should be said.
But Sugar was talking about how Spinel responded to being abandoned (which I would contrast to Lapis and Bismuth responded to similar situations), not how she was acting to Pink.

Let's be honest, it's Both Sides Have a Point for their actions, but neither of the people on each side are 100% good people. (Tho, Spinel was waaaay worse in that respect)
Pink did not have a good reason to abandon Spinel. Justifying her actions back then with things Spinel did thousands of years later is morally nonsensical.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59636: Oct 15th 2019 at 4:06:57 PM

Spinel had every right to be upset at Pink, and I don't see a reason to try and downplay Pink's wrongness.

But we have already talked about how some people were judging Steven for being focused on trying to fix the damage she did, both to the planet and his family, instead of continuing to focus entirely on her, and I do agree it's very likely if the genders were reversed those people would not be having that reaction.

Edited by LSBK on Oct 15th 2019 at 6:07:31 AM

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#59637: Oct 15th 2019 at 4:34:46 PM

To summarize the things Sugar said at the signing:

  • Spinel's knew where to find the Injectors and Rejuvenators because she was Pink Diamond's friend.
  • Spinel got to the Earth on the same day she left because Homeworld ships really are that fast. (Aquamarine only even took like ten minutes to get from Earth to Homeworld because of engine trouble.)
  • When Eyeball said "I nearly dissipated my form!" when she found out she'd be looking for Jasper, it wasn't hyperbole (not as much as it sounds, anyway). Gems can actual poof spontaneously if upset or excited enough. And I thought it was just a poop joke.
  • A related note to the above: She said "dissipated by form" because "poof" is slang specific to Earth gems.

I like the theory he brings up that Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl all self-poofed from grief and reformed immediately after Steven was born as a direct result of crushing sadness from losing Rose.
That might track for Pearl, but Amethyst and Garnet had newer outfits before they even understood that Rose was gone (and Amethyst would keep hers past Steven moving into the beach house).

(P.S. I'd like to see the first time Steven saw Amethyst's form from the beginning of the series and thought "Why did you change outfits? None of us do that.")

Sugar mentioned that there were apparently many scenes they had to cut from the movie for time
She also said the final version was still ten minutes longer than it was "supposed" to be.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#59638: Oct 15th 2019 at 7:15:51 PM

Bismuth and Lapizuli's roles didn't quite have much of an impact on how they acted when they were abandoned.

They're reactions were entirely more reasonable as a result.

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VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#59639: Oct 15th 2019 at 9:33:47 PM

I remember one review that criticized The Movie said already that it is troubling that Pink Diamond now exist as a punching bag and basically a Hate Sink for the show, since the rest of the Diamonds are "loving grandmas" type now, who are "too loveable, to be hated", despite you know, committing multiple genocides and sucking life out of planets and Pink Diamond was the one, who started a Rebellion to stop them and save Earth.

Here it is (more specifically, at time mark 4:42):

Pachylad (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#59640: Oct 15th 2019 at 10:01:16 PM

The problem with the Hate Sink trope is that you don't know how much of it is intentional on part of the writer(s), and how much of it is the fandom invoking Ron the Death Eater hard

I won't deny myself having been caught up in the Pink hate train in the immediate aftermath of the movie as well, but the movie's characterisation of her doesn't really contradict what we already knew of her (there's lotsa posts pointing out how her redemption arc throughout the series has been played out in reverse). Sure she may have been a Token Good Teammate and a good deal more of a Benevolent Boss than the other Diamonds, but she was still a selfish narcissist who never quite understood the extent to which her actions affected others. The movie merely placed a magnifying lens on those particular flaws, especially with regard to how the events happen before she got her character development.

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#59641: Oct 15th 2019 at 10:37:18 PM

[up][up] I sorta blame the fandom for exaggerating Pink's flaws and the show's narrative for pretty much sweeping a lot of the Diamonds' atrocities under the rug following their faux-redemption and focusing mostly on Pink's flaws and bad things she did.

Kinda hoping Spinel is the last "It's all Pink's fault" villain we get. I'd like to see an antagonist who still wants revenge against the three other members of the Diamond Authority for their atrocities.

Edited by VengefulBale on Oct 15th 2019 at 12:45:43 PM

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59642: Oct 16th 2019 at 1:32:06 AM

[up][up]Yeah, it's worth remembering that leaving Spinel behind was one of the very first chronological actions we see Pink do. That happens before Pink even gets Earth, that happens before Pearl suggests the Rose Quartz persona, before Pink sees the beauty of Earth, before the Rebellion, before Pearl and Garnet teach her to respect Gems as individuals, before she bubbles Bismuth, before she fakes her own death, and WAY before she meets Greg and learns from him to respect all sapient people as individuals.

It's important to remember that Pink went through A LOT of character development, all of which happened AFTER she told Spinel to stand there and wait for her return.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 16th 2019 at 10:25:43 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#59643: Oct 16th 2019 at 1:51:01 AM

There is many point here: one is that indeed Pink action are playing reverse, so rather than getting angry and pink and the getting better, we talk about how much we loved rose, how much good she is and so own until the end you get "you were quite horrible, isnt?"

Second, maybe people get a little bit tired in how much Steven have to deal with her crap over and over.

And the third is because...well this is Pink sins she never wash away, she try to make ament, to be better but spiniel wasnt that, she....just forgot about her and got away as result.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#59644: Oct 16th 2019 at 7:42:02 AM

Diamond days (Change your mind) is finally available for purchase through streaming for those in the UK!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#59645: Oct 16th 2019 at 11:28:37 AM

Diamond Days?

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#59647: Oct 16th 2019 at 11:33:18 AM

"Diamond Days" is the title of the story arc covering the last few episodes of Steven Universe starting with "Legs from Here to Homeworld" and ending with "Change Your Mind".

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#59648: Oct 16th 2019 at 11:35:44 AM

Weird, that sounds like would be the name of a flashback special.

It'd be more fitting.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#59649: Oct 16th 2019 at 11:37:41 AM

I think it's called that because the episodes take place during those days that Steven spends as Pink Diamond.

alanh Since: May, 2010
#59650: Oct 16th 2019 at 8:56:09 PM

An interesting observation someone on Reddit made: Regular Garnet never asks questions. Reset Garnet only asks questions.


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