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thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#59551: Oct 7th 2019 at 4:39:52 PM

while they were obscuring the twist that the Gems were aliens, they threw in a bunch of hints that they might have been magic instead to catch us off the scent.
They're explicitly called magic repeatedly. And even if it's mentioned much less, they still really are magic in addition to being aliens.

That may have been more Early Installment Weirdness than anything. After all, the original draft of the show had the gems being outright magical women from a parallel dimension who were genuine guardians of humanity.
According to the artbook, they were still planned to be from another dimension when they wrote the pilot.

This outline from 2013 (the series premiering in November) starts with "the gems are aliens".

I would guess it was something they came up with after some episodes were outlined, if not boarded.

@Snicka: Right click on the posts' timestamp and select "Copy link address" to link directly to that specific post.

Edited by thatother1dude on Oct 7th 2019 at 6:44:38 AM

Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#59552: Oct 7th 2019 at 4:58:51 PM

[up][up]So it works the same way as linking a page. Thanks!

[up]Thanks for that too! I didn't figure out the timestamp thing until now.

Edited by Snicka on Oct 7th 2019 at 2:00:59 PM

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#59553: Oct 7th 2019 at 5:08:51 PM

I figured the gems called it magic to make it easier for Steven to understand, with it actually being Clarke's Third Law.

Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#59555: Oct 7th 2019 at 5:59:57 PM

This post, written after the Season 1 finale, speculates that Homeworld's leader is a fusion of 10 gems. It is, of course, the exact opposite of what actually happened in the show, but it's a fun speculation. I'm just imagining Fluorite in the place of White Diamond.

Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#59556: Oct 7th 2019 at 6:23:37 PM

And the first person guessing Season 5's big twist. Immediately booed two posts later because it "makes no sense".

EDIT: I'm probably (definitely) wrong about it being the first guess overall, but it's the first one bringing it up after "The Trial".

Edited by Snicka on Oct 7th 2019 at 3:56:42 PM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#59557: Oct 7th 2019 at 6:25:34 PM

I remember theorizing that Yellow Diamond would someone fuse the shattered Gem monsters to become some sort of twisted fusion, a sort of Malachite-style perversion of fusion.

All the Cluster stuff wasn’t exactly relevant in the long term, though - not when Pink started to be brought into focus.

I do think that most of us thought that Rose was the Pink part of the Diamond sigil before we learned more about the Diamonds.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Oct 7th 2019 at 9:26:46 AM

Oh God! Natural light!
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#59558: Oct 7th 2019 at 6:32:54 PM

There were a few people who thought Rose might actually be Pink. I thought this might be the case, but it never occurred to me that this might not be common knowledge. That is to say, I believed that Pink openly rebelled against the other Diamonds and changed her name to Rose Quartz, and everybody knew this. Thus, as soon as people started saying how Rose shattered Pink Diamond, I discarded that theory.

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#59559: Oct 7th 2019 at 6:33:35 PM

I remember hearing about the Rose is Pink Diamond theory. I considered it at first but eventually dismissed it, was I surprised when it turned out to be true.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#59560: Oct 7th 2019 at 6:37:05 PM

Rose being Pink Diamond was a theory everywhere. To the point where I recall people were throwing it out for being an obvious red herring.

Edited by LordVatek on Oct 7th 2019 at 9:55:23 AM

This song needs more love.
Pachylad (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#59561: Oct 7th 2019 at 6:47:28 PM

The biggest objection to PD=RQ I believe was that it would've undermined the narrative of 'underdog gem rebelling against her natural instincts to rise against DA SYSTEM' which is still kinda what we actually got with Pink but... y'know Rebel Princesses still seemed a tad cliche

I remember being mighty ambivalent to the theory: my own personal take was that Pink Diamond committed suicide (which made sense in relation to revelations in "The Trial"), whether out of desperation from the rebellion or because she too was sympathetic to their cause but couldn't bear facing the other Diamonds. And I was the best kind of wrong about it in the end: technically correct!

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#59562: Oct 7th 2019 at 6:47:46 PM

Yeah, people were hypothesizing Rose was Pink Diamond as early as season 1, IMO. And even after the reveal of Rose shattering Pink Diamond, there were still a bunch of people clinging on to that theory.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Pachylad (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#59563: Oct 7th 2019 at 6:52:07 PM

The most impressive PD=RQ theorising I've seen so far is this, note how its first draft came out on 13th Jan, 2017, which is before "Steven's Dream" happened

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#59564: Oct 7th 2019 at 7:05:36 PM

@Silent Colossus: I know we're repeating ourselves already, but how does calling biological abilities and advanced technology magic make them easier to understand?

I've honestly thought gems don't fit Clarke's Third Law as well as Sufficiently Analyzed Magic (which is basically the exact opposite concept). Sugar even recently said "There are things about Gems that even Gems don’t understand."

That is to say, I believed that Pink openly rebelled against the other Diamonds and changed her name to Rose Quartz, and everybody knew this.
Or (as Karkat seems to be saying) was openly a co-leader of Homeworld, who weren't ever all called "[X] Diamond". We saw the pink Homeworld emblem on Pearl's space suit early in season 1b, while it wasn't until the season 2 that we were specifically told the leaders were all diamonds.

Yeah, people were hypothesizing Rose was Pink Diamond as early as season 1, IMO. And even after the reveal of Rose shattering Pink Diamond, there were still a bunch of people clinging on to that theory.
That's because "Rose is Pink Diamond" wasn't a theory, it was many different theories with one common element and innumerable variables. People still associated them together and thought disproving one was strong evidence against all others.

Basically, people dismissed the hints of the truth (or at least the full meaning thereof) because they came so far ahead of any context that would make it meaningful (like "What was Rose's public rank before the rebellion?" or "What are the lives of Homeworld's leaders actually like?")

Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#59565: Oct 7th 2019 at 7:10:52 PM

Now I can't stop listening to system/BOOT.pearl_final(3).info. I'm not sure it even counts as a song.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59567: Oct 7th 2019 at 8:04:37 PM

I think "Rose is Pink Diamond" was a theory formed way back when people noticed the 4-Diamond symbol on the floor of Jasper's hand ship during the season 1 finale.

Another funny thing looking back, someone guessed that Steven would accidentally fuse with Connie shortly after Giant Woman aired, except their prediction was that it would be a bad thing!

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#59568: Oct 7th 2019 at 8:27:57 PM

I think "Rose is Pink Diamond" was a theory formed way back when people noticed the 4-Diamond symbol on the floor of Jasper's hand ship during the season 1 finale.
The prototype of the theory started in "Space Race" because Pearl's spacesuit had a pink rhombus, a symbol Lapis wore and that was all over the pyramid mural.

People guessed that used to be Rose's symbol and she was one of Homeworld's rulers, though many (including myself) didn't assume that included any kind of name change.

And the emblem on the floor of the handship was significant because it only had three diamonds and was missing the one Pearl wore. It was "Sworn to the Sword" that first showed gem ruins on Earth with the symbol with all four.

Edited by thatother1dude on Oct 7th 2019 at 10:38:26 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59569: Oct 7th 2019 at 8:32:53 PM

Ah, right. I forgot that Sworn to the Sword was the first time we saw the original 4-Diamond symbol. I thought something seemed wrong about me saying that Jasper's modern hand ship had an outdated symbol on it.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#59570: Oct 7th 2019 at 8:35:51 PM

That was the point were the two big theories became "It's Rose's symbol (and she probably went by the name Pink Diamond, but changed it publicly)." and "It's the symbol of Pink Diamond, who Rose killed."

Basically no one guessed they'd both be part-true.

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#59571: Oct 7th 2019 at 8:41:56 PM

See for me the name change thing was kind of a given, but early on I'd thought that the fact that Rose was Pink Diamond was something that was open to the Crystal Gems, but hidden by the remaining diamonds. Like that the rebel diamond was unpersoned with her part of original symbol defaced and subsequently removed entirely.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#59572: Oct 7th 2019 at 8:55:04 PM

It's funny how the symbol's removal was significant, but not as much as people had guessed.

People were thinking it meant Homeworld either hated Pink or was covering up that any of them could be killed. Really, they just changed it because she wasn't around—and so fast that Nephrite already knew the new symbol before the war ended, despite being on a mission specifically to avenge Pink.

People also figured the damage in the Sky Arena specifically to Pink's symbol (and one of the four statues) was vandalism in response to Pink (publicly) betraying Homeworld. It did symbolize/foreshadow her supposed death, but seems to just be a coincidence literally.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59573: Oct 7th 2019 at 8:58:06 PM

Maybe Bismuth or one of the other Crystal Gems was who defaced the symbol at the Sky Arena.

BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#59574: Oct 7th 2019 at 9:22:50 PM

Might have even been Rose herself.

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#59575: Oct 7th 2019 at 9:44:19 PM

She does have a lot of self loathing.


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