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CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#57826: Jan 22nd 2019 at 5:38:52 AM

[up] I wonder if she'd get a blue blush if someone made her sad, and yellow if she got angry.

ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#57827: Jan 22nd 2019 at 5:41:47 AM

And perhaps White was easy to turn as she was spreading herself too thin with taking over the Diamonds, Crystal Gems. Pearl and the ship. So she was under extreme pressure and just needed alittle hit to shatter her worldview.

I thought at first that Steven needing his gem undermined the message that Steven his himself, not his gem. Immediately after I realized that Steven meant that he literally needed his gem to survive.

-Witty line-
MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#57828: Jan 22nd 2019 at 6:03:59 AM

[up][up] I believe White is all the colors.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#57829: Jan 22nd 2019 at 6:41:04 AM

@Sarcasm: Yeah, it's not that Steven is dependent on his gem, any more than you're dependent on your lungs. Viewing them as separate things is what got White poweryelled at.

It's been fun.
SalFishFin Since: Jan, 2001
#57830: Jan 22nd 2019 at 7:17:44 AM

I would like to point out that a Heel–Face Turn is not the same thing as redemption. People keep referring to the former as if it were the latter, especially in the case of the Diamonds.

Edited by SalFishFin on Jan 22nd 2019 at 10:18:02 AM

ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#57831: Jan 22nd 2019 at 7:31:11 AM

Also, wasn't this how Hesstonite was defeated in Save the Light, by showing her that she wasn't perfect and flawless?

-Witty line-
ProfessorFairweather Since: Feb, 2015
#57832: Jan 22nd 2019 at 7:42:20 AM

Regarding "Redemption"

Blue was the only one that felt most like she was redeemed, yellow felt like she was sympathized with more than redeemed and for white it doesn't even feel like the show tried to redeem her, they just explained her mindset. Now what reparations they need to serve or whether they're better off being free to institute the changes themselves is up to debate but their status as literal demigods makes it more complex then just "lock em up" and I feel like that would have been weird tonally.

I disagree with some of the ways people are using that word on here.

Edited by ProfessorFairweather on Jan 22nd 2019 at 10:45:02 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#57833: Jan 22nd 2019 at 7:48:56 AM

Saw a clip of Pink Steven,holy shit

Just think if his other half hadn't been nearby he could have laid waste to Homeworld just trying to locate his missing self,which makes him the Gem equivalent to the anti messiah

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#57834: Jan 22nd 2019 at 8:05:36 AM

I've been thinking about Pink Steven's reformation. The Gem cycles through the shapes of Pink and Rose before settling on Steven, so the iformation that composed Pink Diamond exists in there, which is why Steven sees Pink/Rose's memories, but they have been superseded by Steven's own developing identity.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#57835: Jan 22nd 2019 at 8:14:35 AM

I'll be happy once they confirm he has none of memories and the diamond dreams were the result of empathy powers drawing on experiences and memories tied to specific places,they've already confirmed that Pink is gone and there's just Steven

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#57836: Jan 22nd 2019 at 8:53:36 AM

I'm not sold on the Diamonds turning on a new leaf. I know this show practically runs on redeeming its antagonists, but this strikes me as a bridge too far. It kind of crosses the line from being optimistic to coming off as actively naive. I don't buy that you can convince a despot who's maintained an oppressive regime for thousands of years to change their whole outlook like this.

This highlights why I still have mixed feelings about Rose being Pink Diamond. It's a plot-point that provided an unrealistically simple and easy solution to the conflict with the Diamonds by revealing that the reason for their underlying grudge was a lie. While I still like the episodes that followed for what they are, in light of the conflict that had been set up it still strikes me as a cop-out from actually addressing that you can't always just talk your way out of a conflict.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#57837: Jan 22nd 2019 at 9:00:01 AM

I'm wondering if they'll explain what made Pink Steven so obscenely powerful. Granted, I always knew that Steven had a lot of potential, but no-selling a gang attack from three diamonds at once?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#57838: Jan 22nd 2019 at 9:04:49 AM

I figure Pink Steven is insanely powerful because he's pure Diamond,being a hybrid keeps this power in check basically,but in that form it's completely unrestrained,I actually thought removing his Gem would trigger Rose returning and basically laying waste to Homeworld as a form of retribution

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Smasher from The 1830's, but without the racists (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: The best thing that ever happened to a bum like me
#57839: Jan 22nd 2019 at 9:18:44 AM

Now can we please have an antagonist that is 100% pure grade A evil?

(Sure, Marty, Kevin, Onion and Ronaldo are terrible people/whatever Onion is, but they aren't 100% evil.)

ObligatorySarcasm Since: Aug, 2016
#57841: Jan 22nd 2019 at 9:34:04 AM

It could be that Pink Steven is immune to White's identity draining power as Pink Steven could be so sure of his identity that White can't 'fix' it. White is Magneto, the gems are metal and Pink Steven is wood.

So Homeworld's conquest mindset could be because White wanted to 'perfect' everything, and perhaps Whte became more obsessed with that idea the more she shed herself to make diamonds. This would also explain why Homeworld kept producing gems despite limited resources: acknowledging something is wrong would be admitting that things are not perfect and flawed. They were forced to continue the status quo. And White locked herself in her palace ship for eons because she didn't want to admit to the glaring issues.

-Witty line-
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#57842: Jan 22nd 2019 at 10:01:41 AM

This highlights why I still have mixed feelings about Rose being Pink Diamond. It's a plot-point that provided an unrealistically simple and easy solution to the conflict with the Diamonds by revealing that the reason for their underlying grudge was a lie. While I still like the episodes that followed for what they are, in light of the conflict that had been set up it still strikes me as a cop-out from actually addressing that you can't always just talk your way out of a conflict.
I don't think Steven Universe is trying to tackle that. The show is trying to teach self-love, and the final conflict is Steven going against his biggest obstacle to loving himself. A villain who wants to force him to be something he's not. I think it's more about White being a parental figure than a despot.


He also doesn't solve the problem by talking it out. White tries to change everyone. Steven just refuses to change for White, which forces her to adapt to how someone else is for the first time, because there's nothing she can do about it.

Edited by xanderiskander on Jan 22nd 2019 at 1:12:11 PM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#57843: Jan 22nd 2019 at 10:16:13 AM

I read a tweet that accurately sums up my feelings; this series always favors emotions over logic, so of course the finale would follow suite.

And from an emotional standpoint, it's a perfect and fitting finale. But when you try to analyze it as a literary piece, it falls apart a bit.

So how good this was depends on which side you prefer.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#57844: Jan 22nd 2019 at 10:21:35 AM

Emotions are for the weak.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Strontiumsun A Gamma Moth from Chicago Since: May, 2015
A Gamma Moth
#57845: Jan 22nd 2019 at 10:30:16 AM

I think it makes perfect sense that Pink Steven could reflect White Diamond's evil eye beams. After all, Rose's shield was able to protect herself, Garnet and Pearl from the Corruping Light back during the war.

Creator of Heroes of Thantopolis: http://heroesofthantopolis.com/
MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#57846: Jan 22nd 2019 at 10:40:54 AM

I don't think it falls apart under analysis.

It falls apart if the shows messages don't line up with yours, but that's not a problem in the text.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#57847: Jan 22nd 2019 at 11:30:31 AM

@xanderiskander, I think the issue is that the show did seem to present itself as if it was going to tackle that issue, and then backed away from it.

Now, it was almost certainly a red herring to begin with, but that doesn't automatically make it better.

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#57848: Jan 22nd 2019 at 11:31:57 AM

Yeah but.... there's a point where arguably any ideal gets carried too far and I don't think it's unreasonable to say that this show does that.

Bananaquit Since: Jan, 2001
#57849: Jan 22nd 2019 at 11:45:57 AM

[up]×10 The thing I like about this show is that it doesn’t have characters that are just plain, irredeemably evil.

GlitterCat Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#57850: Jan 22nd 2019 at 12:48:56 PM

Yeah I always liked shows where the bad guys have some good in them or are redeemable.

see my completed Tangled (Varian) fanfic collection! https://archiveofourown.org/works/24467056/chapters/59049532

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