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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#55301: Jun 16th 2018 at 2:35:03 PM

All right I'm too lazy to go actually check that so now for the second one, where does Lapis say that Jasper is responsible?

Man I don't even know what you're going on about.

Like I said, this is pointless. You've pretty clearly got your own ideas about what happened in the show somehow and are sticking to them.

edited 16th Jun '18 2:37:11 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#55302: Jun 16th 2018 at 2:36:40 PM

I never said "say". I said "treat". You yourself were the first to claim that in the first place.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#55303: Jun 16th 2018 at 3:20:27 PM

If I recall correctly, Jasper was named by the Rubies as the leader of the Earth mission. That would make her Peridot's superior officer.

Personally, I'd say that Peridot and Jasper share the blame. I didn't realize that this was apparently in question.

On the issue of the barn, Lapis and Peridot share it - one might argue that Peridot was living there first, so it therefore belongs to her, but they agreed to share it, so I think it belongs to both of them equally.

With that in mind, I don't think that either of them have the right to just do whatever they want with the place. Now, Peridot might not, strictly speaking, need it, but Lapis doesn't either - she's a Gem, she doesn't need shelter, especially if she's living on the moon, where there is no adverse weather, and where there are also actual buildings. Plus, didn't she take all of Peridot's stuff with her (I might be misremembering that)? Because if she did, those definitely aren't hers to take.

Oh God! Natural light!
thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#55304: Jun 16th 2018 at 3:26:48 PM

didn't she take all of Peridot's stuff with her (I might be misremembering that)
As best as I can tell, everything Peridot owned was loaded in the barn because she was planning on going with, then Lapis didn't take anything out before leaving.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#55305: Jun 16th 2018 at 3:41:18 PM

I come back to the thread and suddenly there is a page and a half of Sereg discourse

Huh

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55306: Jun 16th 2018 at 4:24:24 PM

It's not a New Record or anything, but I still think it fits.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55307: Jun 16th 2018 at 4:57:58 PM

I think Lapis is more in the wrong with her relationship with Peridot (once it became a relationship). Peridot should've been open that she was scared of Lapis and scared of making Lapis angry, but Lapis still put Peridot into that position of being scared of her, and she didn't appear to do much of anything to change that.

Lapis had to be cognizant of the power differential. Peridot is the weakest Gem we've ever seen and her only power, the ferrokinesis, is very inconsistent and usually requires great physical strain to do even minor movements. To contrast, Lapis can effortlessly waterbend lakes and at max power can terraform the surface of a planet by waterbending the entire ocean. Lapis had to be aware of this extreme power gap, and yet she never took any steps to reassure Peridot that she wouldn't use it against her, even after their relationship's starting point was Lapis repeatedly using her power against Peridot.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#55308: Jun 17th 2018 at 12:58:27 AM

...Well I can tell I missed out on an "interesting" discussion.

IMHO, both Jasper and Peridot share blame for Lapis being placed in that cell on their ship. That doesn't make what Lapis did to either of them right or justified. Taking the barn wasn't cool, and Lapis even admitted herself that doing what she did to Jasper didn't come from a good place.

That doesn't make Lapis a bad character or even a bad person, really. It means she's a flawed and complex yet still sympathetic character, like just about every character in this series who is not named Ronaldo.

edited 17th Jun '18 12:59:24 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55309: Jun 17th 2018 at 1:00:50 AM

You never know, maybe they'll do for Ronaldo what they did for Lars, somehow.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#55310: Jun 17th 2018 at 1:04:18 AM

Well, until then, I'll stand by my unyielding contempt for a fictional character.

Disgusted, but not surprised
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55311: Jun 17th 2018 at 1:23:57 AM

Didn't Ronald already pull a Larson?

By being concerned about his situation for the wrong reasons?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#55312: Jun 17th 2018 at 4:58:29 AM

His name is not Larson.

Anyway, I don't think you can salvage Ronaldo's character by doing what the show did with Lars. It didn't really salvage Lars for me, who I still think is a douchebag. When you need to give a character superpowers, a rad scar, a cape and a spaceship in order to make him tolerable... well, then it's probably not the character whom you've grown to like.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#55313: Jun 17th 2018 at 5:21:14 AM

[up][up] What's with you and butchering character names?

[up] Lars was ment to be space pirate very early on, though.

There's a possibility that I'm misinterpreting you.

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DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#55314: Jun 17th 2018 at 5:28:57 AM

I just mean that when you need to so thoroughly recontextualise a character in order to make him not suck, it probably wasn't that great a character to begin with.

Lars is more tolerable now in so far that watching him have space adventures with a bunch of Gems is inherently more entertaining that watching his vapid teenage Wangst. But that doesn't change the fact that Lars, in terms of personality, is still an unlikeable douchebag just like he's always been. Case in point: Him raging out over the fact that Sadie dares to be happy. Oh, but that just means that he looooooves her!

I still really can't get over how much of a blind spot this show, which is normally so savvy about relationships, has toward Lars and Sadie's relationship. Even in the Space Lars episodes, the show still seems intent on convincing me that their relationship wasn't the Worst Thing Ever, even while presenting a ton of evidence to the contrary, namely that they're both happier without each other.

edited 17th Jun '18 5:40:06 AM by DrDougsh

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#55315: Jun 17th 2018 at 6:30:54 AM

...Him raging out over the fact that Sadie dares to be happy.

Two things:

  1. It wasn't just Sadie being happy. It was that she was hanging Cool Kids and was friends with them. Lars has been trying for ages to get them to like him, so seeing that Sadie not only befriended the Cool Kids, but that they actually like her in the span of a few weeks had to hurt.
  2. Lars has a lot of self-esteem issues regarding himself and his relationships, especially with Sadie and the Cool Kids. After all the times he's hurt her and left her hanging, Sadie not caring about him anymore and moving on with her life to spite him is not that big of a jump for his mind to make.

It does not justify or excuse his fit, but it does explain it. Acting like Lars acted the way he did because he's just a jackass is a major underestimation of his character.

edited 17th Jun '18 6:49:46 AM by Crossover-Enthusiast

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#55316: Jun 17th 2018 at 6:35:55 AM

Lars has had every opportunity to hang out with the Cool Kids, and they've been nothing but welcoming to him every time. Not getting to hang out with them regularly is entirely on him.

And I have to say... having self-esteem issues is not an inherently redeeming or sympathetic trait as far as I'm concerned. That he has self-esteem issues doesn't make him not a colossal jackass.

edited 17th Jun '18 6:48:34 AM by DrDougsh

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#55317: Jun 17th 2018 at 6:59:36 AM

I never said it didn't. It just helps explain why.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#55318: Jun 17th 2018 at 10:47:16 AM

It hurts to find life moves on while you're a pink zombie in space

Of course life goes on. It must

But most people place their problems at the center of the world and it's disconcerting to find out the world thinks differently

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#55320: Jun 17th 2018 at 5:04:26 PM

You can dissect and analyse the ways Lars is being a dick, but that's still what it comes down to; being a dick. I don't find his behaviour the least bit sympathetic.

I mean, I might not get that mad over Lars as a character except because he strikes me as an almost Fifty Shades-esque example of the "He's mopey and emo and I can chaaaaange him!!" story arc so common in crappy teenage romances. The show implies that it's Sadie and Steven's job to "fix" Lars by continuing to give him their undying love and friendship even though he does nothing to deserve it and is generally horrible to them at every turn. It's so blatantly at odds with this show's themes that it genuinely makes me kind of angry.

Lars becoming less of a dick via Steven and Sadie's friendship over the course of the show would honestly make me hate him more as a character because it feeds into that narrative; that you should put up with a person who's a total jackass to you in the hopes that your undying love will change them.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55321: Jun 17th 2018 at 5:30:31 PM

I don't think that's what the show does, imply it's anyone's job to "fix" Lars, that is. I don't think Lars is the best show of it, but I think he follows the general way people work and improve on their issues.

People have to want to change, but having people be there for you and supportive can help with that. Or at least, that's my take on it. It won't be easy or fast, but it can happen.

edited 17th Jun '18 5:40:03 PM by LSBK

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#55322: Jun 17th 2018 at 5:34:38 PM

Heck, even Sadie largely gives up on "fixing" Lars before she's kidnapped. "Maybe I should stop worrying about Lars's problems and start worrying about my own."

And a good chunk of the people who inspired Lars to change were the Off Colors. Gems who he had just met, and thus weren't caught up on "fixing" him.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55323: Jun 17th 2018 at 5:38:39 PM

Well, a year and change is a pretty long time...

Death too...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#55324: Jun 17th 2018 at 5:47:02 PM

I don't think Lars does want to change. Like, he wants his social stature to change, but he doesn't really ever put any work toward self-improvement to make that happen. That's part of the problem with him; it's almost always Steven and Sadie pushing him into things, sometimes against his will, hoping that they can change him. Left to his own devices, he consistently falls back to the same pattern of behaviours — and why wouldn't he, given that Steven and Sadie consistently stick with him no matter how much of a dick he continues to be?

Even Lars's "change" upon becoming Space Lars is only facilitated by him being thrust into an unfamiliar situation against his will. And I think it's debatable that he really has changed, since he's quick enough to fall back into his old douchebaggery the moment he's given a link to his old social life.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#55325: Jun 17th 2018 at 6:36:43 PM

Weirdly enough, Lars flipped from trying too hard to be friends with the cool kids, and being avoided by them because he was being a jerk at the start of the show, to him giving up on trying at being friends with them at all when they actually invited him over to hang out.

In contrast, he befriended the off-colors who are considered outcasts/freaks in their society. Pretty much the opposite of the cool kids' status.

edited 17th Jun '18 6:45:14 PM by xanderiskander


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