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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#55276: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:16:34 PM

I mean, even Lapis herself in the show outright says it was Peridot who imprisoned her and interrogated her.

Not really whitewashing if it's explicitly laid out in the show about who did what and why.

edited 16th Jun '18 1:20:09 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55277: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:20:01 PM

[up][up]How could it have not been mostly Lapizuli? The Peridot gem in almost all of their appearances seems like she's only ever trying to avoid setting her off and making her happy.

Rightfully so, of course.

edited 16th Jun '18 1:20:53 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#55278: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:35:48 PM

I mean, even Lapis herself in the show outright says it was Peridot who imprisoned her and interrogated her. Not really whitewashing if it's explicitly laid out in the show about who did what and why.

Because you are suggesting that Jasper had no involvement in that when she literally had authority over Peridot.

How could it have not been mostly Lapizuli? The Peridot gem in almost all of their appearances seems like she's only ever trying to avoid setting her off and making her happy. Rightfully so, of course.

Because Lapis was not even aware that Peridot was doing that.

EDIT: Also, see above. Peridot started their relationship by imprisoning and interrogating her.

edited 16th Jun '18 1:36:35 PM by Sereg

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55279: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:36:29 PM

So then it's no one's fault, good.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#55280: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:37:22 PM

I made an edit, but I generally agree, yeah. It was a bad relationship, but not one where there's point in assigning blame.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55281: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:41:19 PM

Honestly, it sounds a bit like you're trying to whitewash Lapis here. Peridot's actions on the space ship really have nothing to do with their barn life together.

If I beat someone up one time, and we reconcile later, and they start emotionally abusing me (or something along those lines) that doesn't somehow make us "even" or that person not accountable for their abuses. The transgressions don't cancel out one another.

edited 16th Jun '18 1:43:55 PM by LSBK

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#55282: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:43:16 PM

Lapis literally says it was Peridot who imprisoned her, interrogated her, and brought her to earth.

She never mentions Jasper.

Oh really when?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55283: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:43:57 PM

[up][up]Less actual abuse and more like not really trying...

Up until the end anyway...

edited 16th Jun '18 1:44:29 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#55284: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:47:14 PM

Honestly, it sounds a bit like you're trying to whitewash Lapis here. Peridot's actions on the space ship really have nothing to do with their barn life together.
I disagree that someone's past mistakes ever stop being relevant.

If I beat someone up one time, and we reconcile later, and they start emotionally abusing me (or something along those lines) that doesn't somehow make us "even" or that person not accountable for their abuses.

I don't agree that :Lapis was abusing Peridot at all. Peridot was just reacting to Lapis badly and thus harming herself. In addition, Lapis's past with Peridot made Peridot's mere presence harmful to Lapis as well.

EDIT:

Lapis literally says it was Peridot who imprisoned her, interrogated her, and brought her to earth. She never mentions Jasper.

We saw Jasper with our own eyes. Lapis's testimony is unnecessary.

edited 16th Jun '18 1:48:24 PM by Sereg

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#55285: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:48:17 PM

I don't think this is going to go anywhere at all, frankly.

Oh really when?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55286: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:49:09 PM

That was quite clear...but further posting is always intentional.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#55287: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:49:16 PM

@Le Garcon: Probably not. I did edit in a response to you though.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55288: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:51:03 PM

We saw Jasper with our own eyes. Lapis's testimony is unnecessary.

Let me ask you this: If I shot someone because I'm really angry and want to take my anger out on something, and then it turns out that the person was a serial child molester and murder, does that retroactively justify my actions?

Who Lapis actually blames is incredibly relevant, because if she doesn't hold Jasper responsible for those things, but is still lashing out at her because she wants to vent her anger and Jasper was the easiest target. That you, personally, hold Jasper responsible, frankly means less than nothing to the character's actual actions and motivations, or the justifications of them.

edited 16th Jun '18 1:55:29 PM by LSBK

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#55289: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:52:59 PM

It's not going anywhere, you've made up your mind pretty well about what was in the show and who did what even if it doesn't follow the actual events shown.

Oh really when?
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#55290: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:55:47 PM

Let me ask you this: If I shot someone because I'm really angry and want to take my anger out on them, and then it turns out that the person was a serial child molester and murder, does that retroactively justify my actions?
No. Just means there was a good result.

Who Lapis actually blames is incredibly relevant, because if she doesn't hold Jasper responsible for those things, but is still lashing out at her because she wants to vent her anger and Jasper was the easiest target.

I'm saying she does hold Jasper accountable for those things. She just hasn't mentioned that as it wasn't relevant.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#55291: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:56:38 PM

So if she hasn't mentioned it how do you know she holds Jasper accountable for interrogating her and imprisoning her and bringing her to earth?

Oh really when?
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#55292: Jun 16th 2018 at 1:59:09 PM

Where's the proof she doesn't? It makes more sense based on what we've seen. She lashes out at Jasper as if she considers Jasper responsible and Jasper actually was responsible (she was in command and was present) and Lapis knew that.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#55293: Jun 16th 2018 at 2:00:00 PM

So you don't know

Oh really when?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55294: Jun 16th 2018 at 2:01:27 PM

Where's the proof she doesn't?

That's not how proof works. You don't "prove" negatives.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55295: Jun 16th 2018 at 2:02:47 PM

You know...if certain threads of discussion leads to "where's the proof something is true" and "where's the proof it isn't true" it's best to not continue down that road.

And continue on the stuff that isn't based on pure random guessing.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#55296: Jun 16th 2018 at 2:21:04 PM

That's not how proof works. You don't "prove" negatives.

I know. But you don't prove positives either. However, the evidence supports my hypothesis more than yours.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55297: Jun 16th 2018 at 2:22:20 PM

Sure, if you ignore what the characters actually say and how they feel, in favor of your interpretation. Which I honestly get the impression you do do (on more than just this), but you shouldn't expect the rest of us to.

edited 16th Jun '18 2:34:22 PM by LSBK

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#55298: Jun 16th 2018 at 2:29:17 PM

The characters' words support my hypothesis. They make less sense in light of the alternative hypothesis. As for how they feel, we can't tell that except to guess based on the clues we're given. And the clues we're given support my hypothesis and not the alternative hypothesis.

EDIT: I mean, we have people blaming Lapis for treating Jasper as if Jasper responsible. So. The facts are:

1. Lapis treats Jasper as though Japser is responsible.

2. Jasper actually is responsible.

I think "Lapis considers Jasper responsible" is a more reasonable conclusion than, "Lapis incorrectly believes Jasper is not responsible but has decided to treat her as responsible anyway". Occam's Razor supports my hypothesis.

edited 16th Jun '18 2:34:00 PM by Sereg

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#55299: Jun 16th 2018 at 2:32:22 PM

At no point does Lapis ever say she holds Jasper accountable for imprisoning her. She only ever mentions Peridot.

Also at no point is it ever mentioned that Jasper is actually in charge. If anything there's more evidence that she wasn't and that she was just assigned to Peridot as her escort.

The problem with that is neither 1 or 2 are actually true.

Where does Lapis say she holds Jasper responsible and where is it said that Jasper is responsible?

edited 16th Jun '18 2:33:09 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#55300: Jun 16th 2018 at 2:32:40 PM

I added an edit.

EDIT: Jasper literally ordered Peridot around. That is being in charge de facto.

EDIT: You yourself were the one to claim 1 in the first place.

As for 2, Jasper's mere presence makes her responsible.

edited 16th Jun '18 2:34:56 PM by Sereg


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