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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#55226: Jun 14th 2018 at 8:09:23 PM

If I'm going to criticize Lapis for anything, it's not so much her understandable fear and desire to avoid being dragged into another war as it is her selfishness.

Seriously, taking the barn with her was not cool.

Disgusted, but not surprised
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55227: Jun 14th 2018 at 8:14:30 PM

Not cool, indeed.

For a water based character, that's really bad.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sedorna Since: Apr, 2014
#55228: Jun 14th 2018 at 9:55:30 PM

I have long been convinced that much of fandom’s hatred for Lapis comes from the fact that they put her on a pedestal.

A long time ago, back when she was part of Malachite, one of the more common fanon views of Lapis was of this utterly selfless angel who was keeping Jasper trapped only to save Steven. Plus, once she was freed she would happily join the Crystal gems and be everybody’s beach summer fun buddy.

But then the real Lapis showed herself, and her trauma wasn’t pretty. She didn’t trap Jasper as a noble gesture of self-sacrifice, but because she wanted to finally be in control for once, and to have someone experience the pain she had been through. It didn’t matter who. She didn’t happily join the Crystal Gems, and struggled to learn to love the Earth. And, when trauma threatens to rear its ugly head again, Lapis lets that fear overwhelm her. Instead of fighting to protect others, she runs away to save herself. It’s quite tragic and painful to watch, but it is realistic.

And flawed. And, well, I think that there are some people who prefer the selfless, gentle angel happy Lappy to the flawed, scared one, who wants to be a better person, regrets her actions, tries to be a better person, but ultimately lets her fear overwhelm her of canon.

Oceanstuck Dark Sun, what choices have I...? from see handle Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#55230: Jun 15th 2018 at 3:43:43 AM

Sounds like fandom purity wank all over again, if I had a problem with Lapis its her relative staticness making her not as interesting to follow as the other Crystal Gems, not the fact that their precious baby dared show something as problematic as a character flaw.

32ndfreeze Since: Mar, 2012
#55231: Jun 15th 2018 at 4:04:26 AM

Yeah, I think it's mainly the clash of expectations and reality.

How long was the gap between Malachite and the break up again? I'm sure it was at least a year. And lots of time for people to cement headcanons about a very popular character.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#55232: Jun 15th 2018 at 4:28:41 AM

I didn't expect Lapis to be some pure angel type because every character in this show is a flawed and somewhat complex person.

Except Ronaldo. Ronaldo is just the worst.

Disgusted, but not surprised
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#55233: Jun 15th 2018 at 5:12:51 AM

[up]Which is kinda amusing. I have no idea whether Ronaldo supposed to be the worst or Rebecca wanted to make funny lovable character audience supposed to like but failed.

edited 15th Jun '18 5:13:37 AM by VeryVileVillian

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#55234: Jun 15th 2018 at 5:23:51 AM

I assume that they tried to do the "Lonely and Dorky character that has no friends" archetype but failed to accomplish in making Ronaldo actually likeable.

And i think they just gave up on trying really. Ronaldo will forever be hated unless he turns out to be a gem from out of nowhere.

Uni cat
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#55235: Jun 15th 2018 at 5:31:53 AM

I think that'd make him even worse. He doesn't deserve to be a gem.

I think a facet of this show is that there are always just going to be people in your life who you don't like and are never going to like. I still don't like Lars, and I don't think I'm ever going to like him, but well, that's life.

edited 15th Jun '18 5:33:31 AM by DrDougsh

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#55236: Jun 15th 2018 at 6:22:08 AM

[up][up] I am once again reminded of this fanfic.

I think they write Ronaldo best when focus on the dorky, non-conspiracy theorist side of him. There's great comedy potential with that side.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55237: Jun 15th 2018 at 9:24:46 AM

And, well, I think that there are some people who prefer the selfless, gentle angel happy Lappy to the flawed...

Was this ever a thing...the very first thing she did was selfishly steal all of Beach City's Ocean to get off planet...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#55238: Jun 15th 2018 at 10:13:18 AM

[up] But she is so tragic and saaaaaaaaad!

I like Lapis, but she isn't entirely innocent of a few things she has done.

Uni cat
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55239: Jun 15th 2018 at 10:16:32 AM

I'm pretty sure if people really stuck to that logic, they wouldn't be as upset with her current characterization.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
FerrousMaelstom Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#55240: Jun 15th 2018 at 10:27:24 AM

Lapis is complicated. While I personally feel like her flaws were blatantly obvious from the first appearance she definitely had a lot of fans before Malachite unfused. Personally I liked her better once we got to the living in the barn with Peridot phase.

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#55241: Jun 15th 2018 at 10:50:00 AM

I always hated Lars way more than Ronaldo. I still don't like him after he became Space Lars, especially not that "Oh, him hating Sadie for being happy just means he caaaaares!" moment.

Sedorna Since: Apr, 2014
#55242: Jun 15th 2018 at 10:52:51 AM

I think that some of the people who are upset with Lapis are so because it’s not so easy to excuse her actions anymore.

Lapis only stole the oceans because she wanted to go home. And she had been trapped in the mirror and her gem was cracked, so it wasn’t really her fault. And besides, Jasper was a big jerk, and Lapis was only doing it to protect Steven. (Let’s ignore the fact that Lapis herself said she trapped Jasper because she just wanted a prisoner. The primary reason must have been to protect Steven. Because Lapis was a pure, innocent water angel. A victim. Not just that, but a good victim. The kind who would be sad and gentle and always do the right thing.

But then she was “mean” to Peridot. And that was a bad thing. Because it’s not so easy to argue that Lapis was a noble angel. Peridot was kind to Lapis. She made it a point to not do things which might upset Lapis. Lapis should have shown her gratitude by listening to Peridot (and Steven) and chosen to stay and selflessly protect the Earth.

But, as I’ve said before, her fear controls her actions. It can’t be argued that she was willing to leave everyone behind on Earth because she wanted to protect Steven. It can no longer be argued that Lapis would ultimately choose to be selfless. Lapis wanted to protect herself. She was scared, and ran away.

When push came to shove, Lapis chose to protect Lapis. And, sadly, I believe some people are mad about that. They wanted a pure, idealized angel. They got a multi-dimensional, flawed person.

edited 15th Jun '18 10:53:38 AM by Sedorna

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#55243: Jun 15th 2018 at 11:09:39 AM

Well put.

They wanted this cute pure waif and instead got a complex character.

Lapis is selfish and manipulative and even just outright cruel.

Personally that's all the more reason to love her as a character. If she was just a waif I'd be kinda mad to be honest. It'd be boring.

Oh really when?
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#55244: Jun 15th 2018 at 11:38:34 AM

I saw no reason why she should be forced to interact with Peridot, Lapis clearly had trauma over being kept a prisoner and Peridot was one of her jailers. You are not required to forgive someone just because they want your forgiveness or because it makes someone else uncomfortable.

That being said Lapis has always had problems and the angel narrative doesn't really fit her anyways.

Oissu!
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#55245: Jun 15th 2018 at 11:41:08 AM

Not to mention Lapis just uses Peridot and treats her pretty poorly in the first place.

Oh really when?
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#55246: Jun 15th 2018 at 11:42:23 AM

Their relationship dynamic has always read bad at best due to poor communication and abusive at worst to me.

Oissu!
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#55247: Jun 15th 2018 at 11:48:59 AM

[up][up][up][up] My inner cynic thinks you you're missing a vowel or two in that post, specifically "u"s.

edited 15th Jun '18 11:49:31 AM by MorningStar1337

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55248: Jun 15th 2018 at 11:59:36 AM

Is pretty accurate without them though...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55249: Jun 15th 2018 at 12:08:20 PM

Lapis was always one of my favorite characters and she's still one now, even if I wish they had done more with her while she was on Earth.

I don't think it's unreasonable to be frustrated with the character even if you find her understandable, but the issue seems to be that a lot of people don't get, or don't want to get, why the way she behaves is understandable. Because with things like this people tend to confuse "understanding" with "justifying/excusing". The same thing comes up a lot with villains, and people complaining about when writers give more to them than just "I'm evil."

edited 15th Jun '18 2:29:01 PM by LSBK

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#55250: Jun 15th 2018 at 12:39:02 PM

I was never under the impression Lapis was supposed to be a perfect angel. She cares about Steven but she's always been very self-centered. Understandably, given what she went through, but it is what it is. I get finding her frustrating but she's one of my favorite characters.


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