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DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#54651: May 13th 2018 at 1:28:12 PM

It seems bizarre to me that Rose, who's been shown as quite an empathetic person, seriously thought that her own sister/mother figures would not care at all about her supposed assassination and would not seek retaliation. Did she not know them at all? You'd think that having known them for presumably thousands or years, she'd know them better than that. (Unless we're meant to take it that they really weren't that close, in which case Blue and Yellow's incessant grief seems odd.)

Her whole plan of faking her death just seems incredibly poorly thought out at best and incredibly selfish and irresponsible at worst. I mean, it makes Rose pretty much directly responsible for most of her friends being corrupted. I do wonder how much she's going to get called out on this in the coming episodes, or whether the characters' anger is going to be more about her lying to them.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#54652: May 13th 2018 at 1:31:31 PM

I'd like for a character to get so upset that they start yelling at Steven about how terribly thought-out Rose's plan was, on the off chance that Rose could somehow see what Steven sees. But I can't imagine any character in the show would act that way.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#54653: May 13th 2018 at 1:38:41 PM

[up][up]Empathetic? Rose's Lack of Empathy has been one of her most consistent character flaws. It wasn't until she met Greg that she developed more empathy. Before that, a lot of her love for living things was akin to loving pets. She had trouble appreciating humans as individuals.

As for knowing the other Diamonds for a thousands of years...it's kind of a thing that Gems don't usually mature or change with time. Rose was more or less stuck as an immature Womanchild. She only really started to grow up on Earth. And even then, she struggled with her lack of maturity.

edited 13th May '18 1:41:57 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#54654: May 13th 2018 at 1:41:49 PM

Rose was good in the abstract. She had a love for nature and people in that she noticed their "beauty" and "worth", but probably could never get super invested in any specific animal or human because by very nature, they'd be gone in the equivalent of a blink to her.

She basically told that Greg upfront at first: "I really want to play with you some more, but your life is short, and you shouldn't waste it on me". Paraphrasing, but you get the point.

edited 13th May '18 1:42:52 PM by LSBK

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#54655: May 13th 2018 at 1:46:54 PM

We're just humans examining the gems as humans.

The gems examining humans as gems pity them for their short lives, fragility, technological infancy...

When it comes to feelings, the gems are most partial to themselves, but the Diamonds are most partial to themselves. They don't mind losing a few gems in world conquests, and they definitely wouldn't mind about losing any organics.

Pink might have fallen in love with ANY planet she first landed on. It was just fortunate that it happened to be Earth.

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#54656: May 13th 2018 at 1:53:25 PM

Empathy is Steven's strong point and is perhaps the biggest difference between him and Rose. Where Rose wasn't able to focus on living creatures individually, Steven often does so at the expense of the bigger picture.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#54657: May 13th 2018 at 1:59:33 PM

> post

It's possible they care more for her now then they did when she was alive,they didn't know what they'd lost till she was gone

Pink might not seen them caring about her as much as they cared about her colony,hence the need to hurt them emotionally

edited 13th May '18 1:59:41 PM by Ultimatum

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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#54658: May 13th 2018 at 2:05:03 PM

[up] Except she thought that her "death" would not hurt them emotionally. She figured they'd just cut their losses and leave. Kind of like how she underestimated how badly the Crystal Gems and Greg would miss her. But then, that's self-loathing for ya.

edited 13th May '18 2:06:14 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
supermerlin100 Since: Sep, 2011
#54659: May 13th 2018 at 2:07:43 PM

People keep saying that this makes Rose responsible for the corruption, but she already was. If Rose had killed Pink, as we thought, the result and the motive would've been the same. If Rose wasn't Pink, she'd still be responsible for everything that resulted from the rebellion.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#54660: May 13th 2018 at 2:15:17 PM

This is why I've felt that this doesn't change a whole lot about the story in some ways. A lot of problems crop up from Rose's lack of foresight and self-centeredness and/or self-loathing. The only difference is the nature of just what she affected and how.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#54661: May 13th 2018 at 2:17:41 PM

I feel like Pink actually wanted to hurt them,convincing Pearl they wouldn't care was her way getting Pearl to go along with her risky plan

I'm sympathetic towards Pink don't get me wrong but her behaviour comes across as vindictive and cruel

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#54662: May 13th 2018 at 2:19:20 PM

[up][up][up]As I had it described to me - A rebel leader killing a dictator is different from a dictator faking their own death. Which, technically is true, but as you say doesn't actually change the motivations for either party, so I found myself disagreeing that on, on that front at least, this changes things terribly.

edited 13th May '18 2:19:40 PM by LSBK

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#54663: May 13th 2018 at 2:25:43 PM

[up][up] No, she explicitly said faking her death was simply a means of ending the war, because she figured Yellow and Diamond would just leave it alone and, at worst, just consider Pink a failure for not being able to conquer earth.

She may have had the wrong idea on how they felt about her, but she wasn't trying to hurt them in particular, just the best way to protect Earth.

And yea, Rose being Pink doesn't change much, all it does is just magnify the magnitude of her actions even more. We've known for years now that Rose kept a lot of secrets from everybody and wasn't exactly the Messianic figure everyone else saw her as, the reveal only just reinforces that. She's not a bad person, but she definitely didn't have a lot of foresight or understanding of those around her or how bad the consequences of her actions would have been.

She's the equivalent of a teenager who decided to run away from home assuming her parents wouldn't miss her.

edited 13th May '18 2:27:50 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#54664: May 13th 2018 at 2:29:56 PM

People keep saying that this makes Rose responsible for the corruption, but she already was.

I dunno, before the latest episode we didn't have the exact details of what happened. Sure, you could have argued that it'd still indirectly have been Rose's fault, but there was certainly a lot more wiggle room with the scarce information we were given previously. Like, there's a number of scenarios where Rose could have been put into a situation where killing Pink Diamond seemed like the least bad option, whereas Pink Diamond's decision as presented in the last episode was just a transparently bad and unnecessary one.

I'd said previously that I didn't feel the reveal made Rose seem better or worse as a person, per se, but I might have rethought that, because upon reflection I definitely feel it makes her come off as significantly dumber.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#54665: May 13th 2018 at 2:30:56 PM

There's a question of whether Rose knew about the Diamond weapon

It's reasonable that a Quartz would not have. But a Diamond?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#54666: May 13th 2018 at 2:33:08 PM

If idea of the Cluster didn't emerge until after Pink got shattered then there would be no way for Rose to have known. Alternatively, one of Yellow's technicians could have come up with the idea shortly before Pink got shattered.

Or ware we talking about the corruption wave? Because that would be in the same boat. Unless it wasn't a weapon but in fact an ability the Diamonds have like a couple of people think.

edited 13th May '18 2:34:19 PM by WillKeaton

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#54667: May 13th 2018 at 2:37:06 PM

It seemed like Pink had been trying to make it seem like the quelling the rebellion was impossible, so they should just give up on it. When Blue and Yellow didn't go for that, she and Pearl had to start thinking of alternatives. Which brings up the question of whether Pink always planned on staying on Earth? Because before the whole faking her death thing, if she's trying to convince them they can't win so should leave, that makes it sound like originally she was intending to leave Earth too. Her getting to stay on Earth might have just been a bonus, to protecting it.

On the Corruption Wave, I wonder if it's a combination of each of the three Diamonds special powers. Blue's emotion power, Yellow's gem-destabilizing powers, and White's...whatever power she has, all combined.

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#54668: May 13th 2018 at 2:38:35 PM

I agree that Rose's choices weren't good, but I still fail to see how she could have done better. From the moment it was decided Earth was to become Pink's colony, I can't see any of the other Diamond's allowing her to give up and leave, and fighting the others directly seems like a doomed mission considering she likely didn't even have an army to begin with.

[up][up]I assume Bocaj was talking about the corruption.

edited 13th May '18 2:39:05 PM by Victin

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#54669: May 13th 2018 at 3:10:03 PM

I think the best way to look at the Diamonds is as a highly dysfunctional family. Blue and Yellow were neglectful and harsh, if not outright abusive. But they appear to think they were helping Pink become a proper Diamond.

I wonder if the two were treated in a similar way by White when they were new.

edited 13th May '18 3:10:28 PM by SilentColossus

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#54670: May 13th 2018 at 3:18:51 PM

The corruption, as presented in the show even before this reveal was always the Diamond's retalliation to the shattering. So nothing has changed. Rose was always the one that brought about that.

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#54671: May 13th 2018 at 3:40:41 PM

Um, I'd have to disagree with you there. First, define "always". I don't remember the corruption being explicitly posited as relatiation for Pink Diamond's death until... "Your Mother and Mine", I think? Like, when Pink Diamond's shattering was first mentioned there was a lot of speculation about whether or not that happened close to the beginning of the rebellion or near the tail end of it.

Plus, like I said earlier, the mere notion of Rose Quartz shattering Pink Diamond, which is really all we (thought we) knew prior to the latest episode, leaves a ton of ambiguity and wiggle room about Rose's motives, how much choice she had to do otherwise and how aware she was of the consequences. By contrast, the faking of PD's death as shown in the last episode leaves none of that wiggle room; it was just a straight-up bad decision that it was wholly in Rose's power to not make.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#54672: May 13th 2018 at 3:42:43 PM

Eh, that still assumes that Pink would know that they would retaliate or how they would do so. Whether Rose or Pink, assuming the other Diamonds would just leave after that doesn't make much sense, no matter the circumstances, I think.

If nothing else, such an affront to them couldn't be left unanswered.

edited 13th May '18 3:48:10 PM by LSBK

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#54673: May 13th 2018 at 3:46:51 PM

> I wonder if the two were treated in a similar way by White when they were new.

Similar treatment by White is possible,although Blue and Yellow had each other where as Pink is effectively an only child

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sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#54674: May 13th 2018 at 3:48:30 PM

The corruption, as presented in the show even before this reveal was always the Diamond's retalliation to the shattering. So nothing has changed. Rose was always the one that brought about that.

The Corruption was the Diamonds' parting shot to end the Gem War. Whether it was a direct retaliation for Pink Diamond's shattering or not seems kind of beside the point. Either way, whether Rose legitimately shattered Pink Diamond or Pink faked her own death, it was caused by Rose's Rebellion winning, and that victory came about (in everyone else's eyes) by that shattering.

It may not have been an emotional response to Pink's shattering, but the act did play a role in bringing it about regardless.

Similar treatment by White is possible,although Blue and Yellow had each other where as Pink is effectively an only child
Or, alternatively, she was the annoying older sibling neither Yellow nor Blue really wanted to deal with.

edited 13th May '18 3:50:17 PM by sgamer82

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#54675: May 13th 2018 at 3:59:23 PM

Empathetic? Rose's Lack of Empathy has been one of her most consistent character flaws. It wasn't until she met Greg that she developed more empathy. Before that, a lot of her love for living things was akin to loving pets. She had trouble appreciating humans as individuals.

This seems like an unexpected take on her, to me. There was that whole episode that was about how Rose so keenly felt for the pain of others that her healing powers manifested as tears.

I have a message from another time...

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