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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#53576: Mar 26th 2018 at 9:44:48 PM

I'm honestly not that jazzed by this mystery because I have a hard time believing that whatever it's leading to will be pulled off well/won't come off as unnecessary.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#53577: Mar 26th 2018 at 10:09:41 PM

This post is lagging conversation-wise, but "propaganda" is basically a synonym for advertisement, and not even necessarily the political kind.

Instead of asking if something is propaganda, you should question if it matches the varied negative connotations of the term:

  • Being politically biased when coming from someone responsible for providing objective, evidence-based information.
  • Disguising political advertisement as something else (often art or entertainment) so people are less likely to think they're being persuaded.
  • Coming out when contrary reports are suppressed (or at least not held up as high by someone with power).
  • Presenting information the maker knows, or should now, is factual incorrect or misleading.

I'm honestly not that jazzed by this mystery because I have a hard time believing that whatever it's leading to will be pulled off well/won't come off as unnecessary.
My problem is that's it's been a half season since "The Trial" presented Pink Diamond's fate as a mystery, but we've have very little that looks like evidence. Steven didn't even bring up Zircon's point about the security, or what Bismuth said about Rose's sword. Maybe he's being cagey toward Garnet and Pearl, but more likely he either doesn't care, or kept quiet purely because the episode wasn't about Spotting the Thread.

edited 26th Mar '18 10:10:18 PM by thatother1dude

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#53578: Mar 26th 2018 at 10:28:48 PM

It greatly depends on what the mystery turns out to be and how they pull it off. It makes me a bit nervous but I still have enough faith that the writers won't botch it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#53579: Mar 26th 2018 at 10:50:19 PM

So far the Pearl theory makes the most sense.

1) Pearl's backstory, and how little we know about it, has been highlighted in Gemcation.

2) Rose has a reason to take the blame, fearing that what happened to the other Rose Quartzes will happen to Pearls.

3) Rose also has reason to blame HERSELF. It's very clear that this is a major point of guilt even thousands of years later. She knows Pearl will do pretty much anything she tells her to, no matter how uncomfortable it would be for her.

4) From a writing stand point it involves fleshing out a character the audience already knows and cares about as opposed to creating a new character from whole cloth. YD also meets this qualification, but she doesn't meet any of the above points.

5) WARNING: Contains spoilers. Rebecca has mentioned a Rainbow Quartz 2.0. Meaning we're likely going to get a similar kind of arc between Steven and Pearl to the arc between Steven and Amethyst. Combining these concepts would tie together several running themes throughout the season.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#53580: Mar 26th 2018 at 10:51:55 PM

[up]If the creator herself has publicly stated it, I really don't think it counts as a spoiler.

Anyway, to break down my thoughts on the rest of your post:

1) Pearl's backstory, and how little we know about it, has been highlighted in Gemcation.

Something like that in itself really doesn't somehow make it more likely Pearl shattered Pink Diamond. Shattering Pink Diamond would have happened after Pearls' origins and defection.

2) Rose has a reason to take the blame, fearing that what happened to the other Rose Quartzes will happen to Pearls.

As far as I'm aware we don't actually have a time-table on when all of the Rose Quartz's were bubbled.

3) Rose also has reason to blame HERSELF. It's very clear that this is a major point of guilt even thousands of years later. She knows Pearl will do pretty much anything she tells her to, no matter how uncomfortable it would be for her.

This seems less like evidence for Pearl actually doing it, and more just stating that Rose would feel guilty if Pearl did it.

4) From a writing stand point it involves fleshing out a character the audience already knows and cares about as opposed to creating a new character from whole cloth. YD also meets this qualification, but she doesn't meet any of the above points.

Rose is not a new character from whole cloth. It seems like you've just entirely dismissed the idea that Rose actually did it, which does not strike me as a proper line of reasoning at this time. Looking at it, seems all of your points have that basis.

edited 26th Mar '18 10:59:57 PM by LSBK

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#53581: Mar 26th 2018 at 10:52:35 PM

She marked it in spoiler tags though.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#53582: Mar 26th 2018 at 10:59:16 PM

[up]I meant to say doesn't count as a spoiler.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#53583: Mar 26th 2018 at 11:00:56 PM

Ah, gotcha.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#53584: Mar 26th 2018 at 11:13:07 PM

IDK. This mystery just seems really off for a Howdunnit. The big question for a Howdunnit, is whether the "how" changes anything about the crime itself.

Now Rose could have done some dirty trick to kill, PD. But I'm not sure what changes if that was the case. Shattering PD is already the darkest thing Rose has done, so her doing in an unethical way doesn't change much.

I suppose the answer could tie into a conspiracy organized by one of the Diamonds, but then the question of "Why did Rose go along with the cover up?" emerges again.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#53585: Mar 27th 2018 at 1:53:34 AM

I find it noteworthy that White was apparently uninvolved with the war until Pink was shattered. So maybe she really didn't care until it appeared the rebellion might win, and therefore, inspire more throughout the empire.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#53586: Mar 27th 2018 at 4:57:34 AM

One theory I've read about suggests that Pink Diamond was shattered as a result of the stress she was putting on her gem to remain large,since she didn't want other gems to see her true size,so when Rose struck her with the sword it shattered her instead of poofing her

I wonder if Steven is going to start hunting for the elusive Pink Diamond hoping her actually being alive would be enough to stop another invasion,and then finds her shards in that chest which leads to her resurrection when he finds out how to open it

edited 27th Mar '18 4:58:11 AM by Ultimatum

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CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#53587: Mar 27th 2018 at 7:26:27 AM

Hoo boy do I have a lot of stuff to catch up with. To start with, as far as Garnet's story goes, it's more than a little off in certain aspects, though I don't think it's quite propaganda or intended to mislead as much as it is Garnet's own somewhat tinted view of the events in question.

As far as the suggestion that Pink Diamond may still be alive...Well, we also have the implication from The Trial that White and/or Yellow Diamond had something to do with Pink's (apparent) demise, so either one of those hints is a Red Herring or this this is going to get incredibly convoluted. Like; "Oh, Rose was actually Pink Diamond all along!!!" levels of convoluted, and that sort of twist would require a very skilled writer to pull off.

Also we've finally gotten a tiny bit of White Diamond, her hand is huge compared to that of Blue or Yellow.

edited 27th Mar '18 7:54:16 AM by CaptainCapsase

32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#53588: Mar 27th 2018 at 7:56:32 AM

I think there's something that Steven is forgetting in regards to gem shards - there are still fragments of personality contained therein, and they can be communicated with. After all, he was able to communicate with The Cluster, and he was able to hear countless voices from it (even if what he could get was a bit jumbled).

Seems to me that the most logical possibility is that Pink Diamond was shattered, as Garnet said. However, Steven can still communicate with shards of PD when he's sufficiently close to them, which would also potentially include linking with them mentally in his sleep, similar to what he did with Malachite in "Chille Tid". It's the simplest explanation I can think of relying on information provided in previous episodes.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#53589: Mar 27th 2018 at 8:00:24 AM

[up] To the best of my knowledge all of Steven's empath visions have been of gems that are currently alive; what happened with the cluster didn't really feel like his other visions, where he was a passive observer unable to interact with the vision, just living it out.

Random wild mass guess as a sort of third option is that Pink Diamond is corrupted.

edited 27th Mar '18 8:03:09 AM by CaptainCapsase

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#53590: Mar 27th 2018 at 10:46:26 AM

That trailer that came out a little while ago, I think the only shot that we haven't seen yet is the one where Steven sees the barn on the moon. Though it was set up in "Letters to Lars."

edited 27th Mar '18 10:46:43 AM by WillKeaton

32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#53591: Mar 27th 2018 at 10:49:31 AM

@53585 Yes, you're right in that all of the other instances of Steven's empathy and seeing from the eyes of another gem have been cases where the other gem in question is still alive. However, it's not like every gem triggers it - it may be only specific gems and/or specific intense emotional states, plus there's the simple fact that Steven's still young and his power is growing, so even if having an empathic moment wasn't possible back when he deal with The Cluster, he might have subsequently become capable of such a moment with a shattered gem.

I'm not guaranteeing that I'm right about this, but just that it's probably the simplest hypothesis that fits with what we've seen so far.

That said, your idea that PD got corrupted is possible. That said, it does present minor Fridge Logic questions - namely, it's very strongly suggested that the Diamond Authority inflicted The Corruption on gems on Earth as a response to news of Pink Diamond's death. If PD had been alive still, they wouldn't have done that. Thus, how could she have been corrupted? This can potentially be explained by the fact that we have Unreliable Narrator issues regarding what happened back then (even Garnet - I'm left wondering just how much she just doesn't know or was lied to about certain events like PD's shattering), but that strikes me as needless complication.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#53592: Mar 27th 2018 at 10:58:42 AM

[up] If Pink was corrupted or otherwise disposed of in a way other than shattering, perhaps it was something one of the other Diamonds did to her; a global corruption attack was possible with three diamonds, but perhaps a more localized version of that could be done by two (White and Yellow) or just one (White)? I also still thinks it's likely that White Diamond's powers include something along the lines of mind control and/or other mental powers over gems in line with the theme of the other diamonds' powers (Pearl's compulsion to silence herself may be one such effect of white's powers), which offers several possible explanations for the discrepancies in the official story of how Rose killed Pink Diamond.

edited 27th Mar '18 10:59:58 AM by CaptainCapsase

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#53593: Mar 27th 2018 at 11:43:35 AM

[up] Are you so sure Yellow Diamond couldn't have done it alone?

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#53594: Mar 27th 2018 at 11:54:50 AM

I decided to think of all the new stuff "Your Mother and Mine" showed/mention, and it's more than I realized:

  • There's a bunch of different myths about Rose—Fluorite even thought she didn't exist. Homeworld's official history isn't just inaccurate, it seems like it's kept on a need-to-know basis.
  • Rose really was made on Earth. Which means the prime kindergarten made rose quartzes and amethysts. As for the dialogue about her "home planet" in "We Need to Talk", I'd go with the previous theory that she wasn't being deceptive, that's just what they call Homeworld regardless of where they were made.
  • Rose and Pink Diamond talked in person before the rebellion.
  • Rose started the war by disabling the prime kindergarten. Which means the amethysts in the zoo were all made before the war started, and knew the rose quartzes before they were bubbled.
  • Even though the trailer gave it away, we really did see White Diamond.
  • Only Blue and Yellow Diamond's armies came to Earth to stop the rebellion, which could say a number of things about White. Maybe she doesn't have an army. Maybe she has one, but Pink didn't want help and/or White didn't want to help her.
  • Easy to miss, but exactly one of the planets was labelled with a white diamond. So she does have colonies.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#53595: Mar 27th 2018 at 11:58:35 AM

I found it interesting that Pink apparently asked for Blue's and Yellow's help instead of them acting on their own.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#53596: Mar 27th 2018 at 12:36:29 PM

Pink had a chip on her shoulder, so maybe she asked them to stay back until she said otherwise.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#53597: Mar 27th 2018 at 12:36:47 PM

They probably couldn't send forces to the Earth without her asking since the Earth was her domain and their authority does not extend to the Earth,like how you can't just send ground forces to another country you happen to be allies with without some diplomacy

White presumably didn't send her forces because Pink Diamond didn't ask for her assistance,though White does aid in the Diamond attack but by that point Pink is long gone.

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WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#53598: Mar 27th 2018 at 12:47:48 PM

In Garnet's story it seemed like the Corruption Wave was created by the other three Diamonds as a natural ability. Up till this point I had always assumed it was a technological device. Is the depiction here just a metaphor?

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#53599: Mar 27th 2018 at 1:12:48 PM

Pearl specifically said corruption was caused by "damage from the diamonds".

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#53600: Mar 27th 2018 at 2:11:34 PM

Easy to miss, but exactly one of the planets was labelled with a white diamond. So she does have colonies.

Two, actually; that little planet above the Diamonds and the Saturn-like planet just before Earth is shown are both marked with a white diamond.

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