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WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#52951: Jan 13th 2018 at 9:34:54 AM

What "enemies" have the Crystal Gems ever bubbled? Answer: Just Bismuth. All the other Gems are corrupted.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#52952: Jan 13th 2018 at 9:35:57 AM

Peridot too, for like a minute.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#52953: Jan 13th 2018 at 11:26:58 AM

I gave Jungle Moon a watch this morning and a couple things occurred to me. I know this was touched on at the time but one thing I can't quite get past is why does Steven/Stevonnie have a "diamond dream" at that particular time and place? The only other time we've seen his dreams get like that were either active attempts to contact him (Chille Tid) or when the Gem involved was in close proximity (Steven's Dream). Neither of those are in effect here, but then there's that comment that the place was familiar, coupled with the fact that Stevonnie was acting in Pink Diamond's place within the dream. Though checking back on "Steven's Dream" that may not indicate anything, as that could've been from Blue Diamond's viewpoint. In any case, the circumstances have led me to craft a theory. I don't think it'll be accurate, but it might be something worth thinking about:

wild mass guessRose Quartz isn't Pink Diamond, Steven is. In creating Steven, Rose Quartz was trying to resurrect Pink Diamondwild mass guess

Sensationalism aside, "reincarnate" might be the better word here. Either way, Rose was actively trying, in the creation of Steven, to give her Diamond new life. Somewhere in Steven is a piece, be it a literal shard or simply the essence of, Pink Diamond. It's definitely not the Gem itself, there are too many links to, and too many others recognizing it as, Rose Quartz for that to be it.

If Pink Diamond's death was truly a betrayal by another Diamond, then an All-Loving Hero like Rose would feel sympathy for that and want to do something. Of course, even if her healing powers were up to the task, which we know they weren't as she couldn't heal shattered Gems, simply bringing Pink back would cause more problems than it solved, as any change for the better would require Pink to have been changed for the better by the experience. Not likely, I'm thinking. Alternatively, going at my past post of needing all the pieces, if Rose only had a few slivers bringing Pink back in any form might turn into a Monkey's Paw / Came Back Wrong situation, with whatever coming back being some grotesque or emotionless monstrosity that makes Corrupted Gems look cute and cuddly (and the ones that already are cute and cuddly teeth rottingly adorable).

Somewhere along the way, Rose hit upon the idea of using humanity as a conduit. Pink would return to life as a human or part-human. It would accomplish the goal of reviving Pink and also give the new Pink a link, and therefore a stake, in the life of her world. If the 'monstrosity' point was an issue, there could also be a Raise Him Right This Time element in play.

The dalliances with human men we know Rose had throughout her life were attempts to find a candidate to be the father. In particular, one who could raise the newborn Pink, if Rose knew this would potentially cost her her own life. Enter Greg, the human who taught Rose herself about empathy towards others and that humans were living, thinking creatures just like Gems. She fell in love, and found the father Pink Diamond needed.

We know most of what happened after. Rose and Greg conceived, Steven was born, and Rose was gone. Steven has grown up into the even more All-Loving Hero we know him as.

Now, to address a few of the more obvious reasons this wouldn't work (more obvious here defined as "I can actually predict them in advance"):

Why didn't Rose tell the other Crystal Gems her plan? We know Rose kept secrets, but she didn't often seem to do so without a reason. In this case, the reason is simple: Bringing Pink Diamond back to life, and trading her self to do so in the process, could, with legitimate reason, be seen as a betrayal of everything the Crystal Gems stood for, even if it's not a betrayal of Rose's own values. That may still come about if/when the Crystal Gems discover the truth (if, indeed, this is the truth) Rose may have to count on the Crystal Gems' love for Steven winning the day when that happens.

Rose Quartz's Gem: As mentioned, Rose's Gem is recognized by Gems on both sides of the conflict. So there's no question about it actually being her. Initially, I didn't have anything to explain this but, while typing this theory up, though, I did have a thought on it. It's been a question, both in and out of universe, of just what would happen if Steven's Gem were removed. Possible answer: Whatever else may or may not happen, it would reveal that Steven has actually had an innie all this time, and in that innie is whatever piece of Pink Diamond was part of his creation. Removal of the Rose Quartz Gem might allow Rose to return, but if done too early or improperly, could also cause problems for the bit of Pink inside Steven. Rose is acting as an insulator, for lack of a better term, to keep the dangerous parts of this plan at bay.

Why Not Sooner? If Pink Diamond is part of Steven, why hasn't he had dreams relating to Pink Diamond before now? I can think of a few reasons. But chief among them is that, until now, Steven has probably never been in a place familiar exclusively to Pink Diamond long enough to have such a dream or vision. The closest thing is, perhaps, the Human Zoo or the Moonbase, and and he wasn't there long enough for any dreams to occur to begin with. Anywhere else was probably associated with the Crystal Gems in general or Rose in particular.

So, in conclusion, I think that Steven was an attempt at bringing back Pink Diamond. An attempt designed to give her a stake in the world Rose loved so much and fought to protect. An attempt designed to teach Pink Diamond the very things she learned but, perhaps, could never have otherwise taught her Diamond. If there is any accuracy to this theory, I expect it to come in the form of Steven's Wingding Eyes forming diamonds rather than the usual stars when the reveal comes around.


Now, all that done, I'm sure there's flaws or holes to poke in this theory. Have at you!

edited 13th Jan '18 11:27:48 AM by sgamer82

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#52954: Jan 13th 2018 at 11:45:18 AM

> I can't quite get past is why does Steven/Stevonnie have a "diamond dream" at that particular time and place?

I put the Diamond dreams down to Steven's empathy and dream powers,he picked up on the strong emotions Pink had felt at that particular place,so when Stevonnie went to sleep they ended up reliving the memory associated with that place

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WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#52955: Jan 13th 2018 at 11:54:27 AM

It is a new power. Before he has connected with someone's mind. This time he relives a memory by being next to the spot where the memory took place.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#52956: Jan 13th 2018 at 12:04:19 PM

Steven was born because Rose and Greg wanted to have him.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#52957: Jan 13th 2018 at 12:06:26 PM

I can think of a few places where that new power is going to activate

1)The Strawberry Battlesfields- Where else are emotions going to be their strongest then on a battlefield?

2)A lot of people have already suggested this one but Pink's Palanquin

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#52958: Jan 13th 2018 at 12:10:35 PM

What about the moonbase from our moon?

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#52959: Jan 13th 2018 at 12:31:53 PM

That too,although it depends on what happened there to leave a strong enough memory

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#52960: Jan 13th 2018 at 12:46:05 PM

Steven was born because Rose and Greg wanted to have him.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Flip it, then. Rose didn't have Steven to revive Pink, Rose risked reviving Pink to facilitate having Steven.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#52961: Jan 13th 2018 at 2:05:43 PM

why does Steven/Stevonnie have a "diamond dream" at that particular time and place? The only other time we've seen his dreams get like that were either active attempts to contact him (Chille Tid) or when the Gem involved was in close proximity (Steven's Dream).
Because Stevonnie has different psychic/dream powers than Steven—psychometry instead of dream walking—which they only discovered now because it's the first time Stevonnie fell asleep.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#52962: Jan 13th 2018 at 2:22:05 PM

The way I interpreted that scene was the dream might have been one of Rose's memories. It was implied she had been to the Human Zoo at one point right? It's reasonable she could have been other places too.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#52963: Jan 13th 2018 at 2:23:22 PM

I'd like to point out that Stevonnie used the dream-walking ability earlier in "Mindful Education" when they entered Garnet's mind.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#52964: Jan 13th 2018 at 2:26:12 PM

I'd like to point out that Stevonnie used the dream-walking ability earlier in "Mindful Education" when they entered Garnet's mind.
I don't think that was dreaming.

Really, for a while I figured it was just a visualization for the audience, but now I think it was Stevonnie hallucinating again.

edited 13th Jan '18 2:26:42 PM by thatother1dude

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#52965: Jan 13th 2018 at 2:29:56 PM

Steven was born because Rose and Greg wanted to have him. Nothing more, nothing less.
Also yeah this, I thought we were past the point of thinking Steven was born because of some kind of complicated plan. The Rose episodes make it pretty clear he was overthinking it, and I don't think Greg would lie about this.

edited 13th Jan '18 2:31:44 PM by xanderiskander

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#52966: Jan 13th 2018 at 2:42:56 PM

The way I interpreted that scene was the dream might have been one of Rose's memories. It was implied she had been to the Human Zoo at one point right? It's reasonable she could have been other places too.
The main issue there is that the memory we witness presumably predates the creation of Rose Quartz, since Pink Diamond doesn't seem to have anything of her own yet.

Also yeah this, I thought we were past the point of thinking Steven was born because of some kind of complicated plan. The Rose episodes make it pretty clear he was overthinking it, and I don't think Greg would lie about this.
Given that and the post you quoted, I may tweak the theory to flip the motive. Rather than have Steven to bring back Pink, having bringing back Pink be the means through which Steven is born (ex: a gem/human coupling might not have produced a child without some third factor involved). It's the means to an end, not the end itself. Most of the theory could still work in that context.

Blueeyedrat Since: Oct, 2010
#52967: Jan 13th 2018 at 2:57:54 PM

I'm leaning towards it being some form of psychometry, though it's up in the air as to whether it's a natural growth of Steven's dream powers, or a Stevonnie-exclusive variant.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#52968: Jan 13th 2018 at 3:40:17 PM

I like the idea that Stevonnie has slightly different versions of Steven's powers, plus that has the simplest reason to have not seen it before (whereas Steven's other mental powers manifested at pretty arbitrary points).

edited 13th Jan '18 3:40:29 PM by thatother1dude

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#52969: Jan 13th 2018 at 4:13:49 PM

When watching it I definitely think it was psychometry relating to the place where they were residing in when they had the dream/vision. Rose probably had nothing to do with it.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#52970: Jan 13th 2018 at 6:08:31 PM

Sugar posted that drawing from 4-5 years ago she mentioned in the podcast: the original Lars of the Stars.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#52971: Jan 13th 2018 at 8:38:14 PM

The interesting bit is that the Diamond dream originally starts out as similar enough to Connie’s recurring Anxiety Dreams of her mom ignoring her that Stevonnie initially mistakes it for that.

Maybe it is just a coincidence. Personally I think the Not So Different vibes made the psychometry easier. Stevonnie was more receptive to the lingering feelings of resentment because Connie and Steven both have issues on this front.

edited 13th Jan '18 8:38:32 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#52972: Jan 13th 2018 at 9:54:38 PM

Anyway, one thing about Jungle Moon: it shows that there were already gems, well before Rose, questioning whether they should destroy organic life. So Values Dissonance doesn't work as an excuse; some gems from Homeworld were always unsure. Homeworld did it anyway.

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#52973: Jan 13th 2018 at 10:50:59 PM

On bubbling homeworld gems: The C Gs treat bubbling Peridot as standard procedure. In addition, the war lasted a very long time an they were explicitly making sure they avoided shattering their enemies. That implies they bubbled a lot of enemies, or they just left them to regrow immediately. In the latter case, Bismuth's point is even more valid and also means she was the first any of the C Gs bubbled, making Rose even worse.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#52974: Jan 13th 2018 at 10:56:22 PM

Sereg, at this point I think we all understand that your feelings and reasoning on this are very personal, but at the same time you should also understand that most people wouldn't agree with what you're saying here.

In the show (and out of it) gems treat being shattered as the worst thing you can do to them. If by their own standards they consider that worse than anything else, and most people watching the show agree based on what we've actually seen. Arguing that Rose is "worse" because she didn't want to the thing the characters themselves regard as the worst thing that can happen to them is a losing battle.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#52975: Jan 13th 2018 at 10:58:59 PM

[up][up][up]Come to think of it, the only Gem we've seen so far who has shown true full-on contempt for organic life (as opposed to not really caring or being Innocently Insensitive) is Yellow Diamond.

edited 13th Jan '18 10:59:06 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

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