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32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#51176: Jul 15th 2017 at 7:52:12 AM

Re: "Person" - I think the thing is that the term has evolved a bit, and when it can be a synonym for "human" is a bit dicey. I tend to use it as a synonym for "sapient being," and if Greg was as well, you can see him as not being insensitive at all. On the other hand, if you see "person" as a synonym for "human," like it appears Rose was, then you could see it coming off as insensitive.

I think the trend of equating "person" with "sapient being" versus any other definition is a mix of a legal and philosophical one - laws and philosophies only need relatively small tweaks to remain applicable if "personhood" can be extended beyond human beings. A bit of a futurist consideration for the most part, admittedly, but you get into futurist territory when you talk about a work that involves sapient aliens.

I haven't delved too much into some of the more philosophical questions about this in French, but I believe that they use "une personne" in a similar manner as English uses "person," with "un humain" being the same in use as "human". Of course, given how much of our language is culled from French, including usage, that parallel isn't as significant as if, for example, Tagalog makes a similar distinction.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
Austin Since: Jan, 2001
#51177: Jul 15th 2017 at 9:22:03 AM

Is there a race-neutral word that can serve as a replacement for "humanity" in works with multiple races? Like, if the bad guy is genocidal, then saying that they want to destroy all of humanity implies that they're only targeting humans.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#51178: Jul 15th 2017 at 10:33:52 AM

[up] "Sentient beings", "sapient beings", and "lifeforms" might work

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#51179: Jul 15th 2017 at 10:52:57 AM

Not sure that neutral words would serve if I'm honest

edited 15th Jul '17 11:01:34 AM by Ultimatum

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thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#51180: Jul 15th 2017 at 11:58:29 AM

I tend to use it as a synonym for "sapient being," and if Greg was as well, you can see him as not being insensitive at all. On the other hand, if you see "person" as a synonym for "human," like it appears Rose was, then you could see it coming off as insensitive.
That's my point: the word Greg used has to have ambiguous meaning for the scene to work. Greg would not have said "like a real human", but if he used a more clearly inclusive term (like "someone" or "anybody") Rose's response would unambiguously be stating that gems are less real than humans.

laws and philosophies only need relatively small tweaks to remain applicable if "personhood" can be extended beyond human beings. A bit of a futurist consideration for the most part, admittedly, but you get into futurist territory when you talk about a work that involves sapient aliens.
Except when you're talking about corporate personhood, which is both contemporary and has brought considerable discussion/legislation/litigation.

Is there a race-neutral word that can serve as a replacement for "humanity" in works with multiple races?
"Intelligent life"

Austin Since: Jan, 2001
#51181: Jul 15th 2017 at 1:01:09 PM

"He's going to wipe out all intelligent life!"...Yeah, I suppose that would work.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#51183: Jul 16th 2017 at 7:03:15 AM

Rebecca Sugar apologizes for racism in art book.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07/16/rebecca-sugar-apologises-steven-universe-racism-controversy/

Personally,I don really think there is anything she needs to apologize for here.The story admits that she didnt design the work.

edited 16th Jul '17 7:13:07 AM by DeanCole

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51184: Jul 16th 2017 at 7:08:31 AM

It was also apparently just minor concept art that was never going to be used anyway.

Still, it's better to just apologize and go "yeah, I get why some people are upset" than let people strew over it. That some people are going to continue to do so is inevitable, but there's really nothing to be done about that.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#51185: Jul 16th 2017 at 7:16:34 AM

I'm hoping the drama will blow over eventually,i was quite relived that this thread hadn't been overtaken by it

edited 16th Jul '17 7:18:58 AM by Ultimatum

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Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#51186: Jul 16th 2017 at 8:32:43 AM

I'm glad it hasn't either. While I can see it as a stereotypical caricature, these are some of the last people I'd think to call racists. Their track record I feel has more than earned them the benefit of the doubt and not worth blowing up.

Improving as an author, one video at a time.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#51187: Jul 16th 2017 at 9:58:01 AM

Now that it's been mentioned,let's move on..

In the other thread there was some speculation about the shard fusion experiments,and I think it is possible that were looking for a way to revive Pink Diamond using what shards of her they have,but then there's this quote from Pearl I remembered reading somewhere:

"These shards have a powerful partial consciousness that has been harnessed by gems throughout history in order to create semi-sentient drone soldiers with the capacity to follow basic orders. Gems once created an army of these drones, but found their obedience waned as the shards overdeveloped inside their uniforms and turned on their commanders. You see, any shard inside any sort of container could become a monster!"

I think they were also considering the possibility of using drone soldiers and were researching ways to make them controllable

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51188: Jul 16th 2017 at 1:51:52 PM

[up][up]I'd say the same, but maybe Bismuth soured some people.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#51189: Jul 16th 2017 at 2:07:13 PM

Because of the whole thing with Bismuth kind of fitting some stereotypes of black revolutionaries, correct?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51190: Jul 16th 2017 at 2:12:06 PM

Yep. Also some stuff about people going on about how people reacted differently to a "white-coded" gem (Rose) shattering other gems as compared to a "black-coded" gem.

Personally, my reaction to the situations were different because the situations themselves were different, but I still didn't really see either as a "villain".

edited 16th Jul '17 2:16:50 PM by LSBK

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#51191: Jul 16th 2017 at 2:17:22 PM

She's an antagonist but no villain. Jasper is a villain. The Diamonds are villains. Bismuth is a character who behaved antagonistically but is at worst an anti-hero.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#51192: Jul 16th 2017 at 2:17:26 PM

people see her as a villain based off the fact that she was bubbled away and forgotten about,and they assume whatever she did was heinous enough for Rose to be justified in her actions

Then there's the part where she mistakes Steven for Rose because he rejected her weapon,just like what Rose did,and in response she tries to attack him

I don't really see her as villain per say,misguided is might be the word

edited 16th Jul '17 2:18:55 PM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51193: Jul 16th 2017 at 2:20:18 PM

Yeah, Bismuth's reaction and breakdown were just the result of everything that happened bubbling over.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#51194: Jul 16th 2017 at 2:49:06 PM

Another reason some people might label her a villain outright instead of an Anti-Hero is based off her behaviour at the beginning,and the way that Amethyst did not trust her,but the others did ,and then there's the question of whether the friendless all a lie and she was simply biding her time until she and 'Rose' were alone,and that Amethyst saw right through her

Obviously that's not the case,

edited 16th Jul '17 2:49:34 PM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#51195: Jul 16th 2017 at 4:04:28 PM

Also people react bad because she act diferent that other gems: while peridot and lápis are hostile and turn Nice, bismuth start Nice and act hostile which share how people see her

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#51196: Jul 17th 2017 at 4:06:07 AM

Personally, as I've said before, I'm on Bismuth's side.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#51197: Jul 17th 2017 at 4:38:09 AM

She do good...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#51198: Jul 17th 2017 at 5:30:18 AM

I'm frustrated with Bismuth sympathizers which ignore everything else she said and did in favor of the line "We would have shattered the Diamonds". First of all every other line in that same scene implied she was targeting all Honeworld's enemy soldiers. Second her training dummy is of Quartz height and has a round Gem like most Quartz Gems but unlike the Diamonds. You know, the Quartz Gems literally born to fight in this war with no other choice. We've even seen via the Famethyst that the majority of those Quartzes aren't even that aggressive outside of survival situations Third its implied that then entire scene is a case of History Repeats which if true means she tried to kill her movement's leader over a disagreement.

Plus the Breaking Point is a really impractical weapon even for its intended purpose.

I like Bismuth and want to see her again, but she was in the wrong on this point.

edited 17th Jul '17 5:33:00 AM by RhymeBeat

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#51199: Jul 17th 2017 at 5:59:22 AM

Impractical...

That whole scene plays more as dramatic buildup than an actual flaw with the weapon...as per usual with stuff like this.

The viewers will never know, it was only used once.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#51200: Jul 17th 2017 at 6:24:08 AM

I don't forget the rest of it. I believe that shattering the enemy quartz soldiers would have been the morally and practically correct action. AFAIC, quartzes being created for war means squat.

I agree that the breaking point was a highly impractical weapon. Something I noticed right away. But practicality was not what others disagreed with her on. If they had, everything would have turned out differently.

Rose: Bismuth, this is an interesting idea, but this weapon is a bit awkward. I think I'm more effective with my sword. You did a great job with it.

Bismuth: All right. Stick with the sword for now. I'll try think of something ese.

  • Everything is fine and dandy*


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