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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50901: Jun 23rd 2017 at 11:47:09 AM

You know something that probably should be pointed out about that: centuries is not a long period of time to Gems. Just something to keep in mind.

edited 23rd Jun '17 11:56:13 AM by LSBK

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#50902: Jun 23rd 2017 at 11:53:24 AM

[up] I think it's been stated that the rebellion lasted around a thousand years which i'd imagine would still be alot of death and fighting for even an ancient immortal being to take.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#50903: Jun 23rd 2017 at 11:56:44 AM

Eh, the Transformers were at war for over 65 MILLION YEARS.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50904: Jun 23rd 2017 at 11:59:43 AM

It's probably safe to assume that most casualties would be on the Rebels side. But beyond that, Gems are a militaristic species, and even thousands of years isn't much to them. I don't see that being much an impediment to them, especially since until Pink was shattered it seem less and "equal war" and more just a hold out war, largely made possible by Rose's powers and tactics.

Something else I have to question is this image people projecting on to Pink as the "good" Diamond, and why they assume that her being shattered had to do with the giving up the Earth. If Rose was involved, yes, but there's no guarantee that any other Diamond would care.

Pink had special reason to care about the Earth because it was her only colony, but to the others it's probably just one primitive rock that really wouldn't be worth the trouble. And I still have to question this basic assumption a lot of people seem to have that Rose just didn't do it anymore.

edited 23rd Jun '17 12:01:02 PM by LSBK

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#50905: Jun 23rd 2017 at 12:17:39 PM

Centuries is not a long period of time to Gems
Their lifespans are indefinitely long, so their perception of time can probably best be quantified as a "patience ratio"—how much time they're willing to spend on something compared to what a human would in similar circumstances.

Between stuff like "no TV for 1000 years", and Pearl thinking both 50 and 70 year spaceflights are convenient, I'd say that ratio is in somewhere in the range of 100-1000:1.`

WhatArtThee Since: Oct, 2015
#50906: Jun 23rd 2017 at 12:29:26 PM

I've been skimming Season 1, watching a few important eps. Show hasn't blown me away thus far but it's alright.

Just another day in the life of Jimmy Nutrin
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50907: Jun 23rd 2017 at 12:40:41 PM

Sure gems lifespans are long, but with criminals going without punishment for such an extended period of time at some point, they have to start thinking the Diamonds might be incompetent. The Diamonds surely don't want their subordinates to even consider that possibility.

Rather than their lifespans' length, that would depend on how swift punishment is usually dished out to "defective" gems.

edited 23rd Jun '17 12:44:24 PM by xanderiskander

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50908: Jun 23rd 2017 at 12:44:40 PM

That obviously didn't happen though. Pink was shattered, Earth was lost, and the Diamond Authority is still standing. No one blames Pink for what happens, Rose is just considered "a defective gem who turned on her own kind" for some creatures as lowly as humans.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50909: Jun 23rd 2017 at 12:49:52 PM

With how they started rushing to create new gems with the beta kindergarten, it seems likely they were losing gems to the rebellion on the regular, except for younger gems and some extreme loyalists. And with how Pearl talked to Holly Blue, and just, in general, it being an obvious tactic, I have no doubt a lot of their missions back then, were focused on embarrassing and undercutting Homeworld and the Diamonds to get more and more gems to defect.

edited 23rd Jun '17 12:53:32 PM by xanderiskander

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50910: Jun 23rd 2017 at 12:55:41 PM

Possibly, but whatever tactics they were using clearly weren't enough. In the end, most gems didn't defect, the Rebels were always badly outnumbered, and the Diamond Authority still stands.

The ones who did defect probably weren't that content to begin with, for the most part.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50911: Jun 23rd 2017 at 1:34:28 PM

They don't need to convert the entirety of Homeworld's army to undermine the idea that they're perfect in every way. They just need enough to be a thorn in their side. Also they weren't trying to overthrow the Diamond Authority, (Only Bismuth was) they were trying to get them off Earth.

edited 23rd Jun '17 1:39:42 PM by xanderiskander

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50912: Jun 23rd 2017 at 1:39:23 PM

Well, yeah, but you were the one who brought it up and seemed to be the one arguing that's what they were generally trying to do.

edited 23rd Jun '17 1:40:30 PM by LSBK

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50913: Jun 23rd 2017 at 1:42:14 PM

No I didn't. Using tactics that show the Diamonds aren't always perfect and can fail isn't the same as trying to overthrow them.

edited 23rd Jun '17 1:42:43 PM by xanderiskander

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50914: Jun 23rd 2017 at 1:43:47 PM

Um, yeah, you did. What you described and the way you described works much better for undermining the Diamond Authority than just getting them off Earth. At least, to my mind.

You can argue that the former can be a means for doing the latter, but arguing that it somehow better suited for the latter is weird.

I mean, yeah, they needed recruits, but in the end that obviously wasn't enough to get anyone off the planet.

edited 23rd Jun '17 1:45:16 PM by LSBK

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50915: Jun 23rd 2017 at 1:48:09 PM

No, I was saying they were undermining them to get people on their side. Not trying to topple their entire empire. That's a pretty big difference in scale.

The reason it makes the Diamonds look like incompetent leaders is because of the rebellion's small numbers in the first place.

edited 23rd Jun '17 2:01:02 PM by xanderiskander

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#50916: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:33:17 PM

Didn't the Transformers spend a significant portion of that 65 million years napping?

edited 23rd Jun '17 3:33:45 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50917: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:35:45 PM

[up][up]Not really. Why would you assume that Pink Diamond was directly overseeing ever operation they had going on?

edited 23rd Jun '17 3:36:09 PM by LSBK

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50918: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:48:35 PM

Huh? What does Pink Diamond have to do with it? What makes them look incompetent is the thought that "Really? You have all this power, and this huge army and you're having trouble getting rid of this ragtag bunch of misfits?"

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#50919: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:49:54 PM

Didn't the Transformers spend a significant portion of that 65 million years napping?
Just the ones on Earth. The ones on Cybertron, like Shockwave, kept fighting the whole time without anything important happening.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50920: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:50:22 PM

[up][up]...Are you serious? She has everything to do with with. She was the Diamond in charge of Earth.

But also, not really. Guerilla tactics are a thing for a reason, and Rose is specifically noted to be the reason the rebellion could go on like it did. And she's clearly treated like a special case and not normal.

edited 23rd Jun '17 3:51:44 PM by LSBK

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#50921: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:53:17 PM

Its almost impressive to have a 65 million year war without much of significance happening.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50922: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:53:46 PM

[up][up]I guess I don't see where you got the idea that I was assuming Pink was overseeing every single thing. I didn't even mention her.

edited 23rd Jun '17 3:54:06 PM by xanderiskander

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50923: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:55:36 PM

Because she you keep talking about undermining them as you thought that Pink Diamond was personally involved with all these things. What you're posting an what it seems like you're trying to say are not matching up, at least for me.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50924: Jun 23rd 2017 at 4:02:24 PM

Well I wasn't talking about Pink being involved with the Rebellion in this conversation.

I mean I can see why you wold assume why I would be because I brought up the theory before, but I'm capable of holding a conversation without having Single-Issue Wonk.

What I was more saying in the beginning is patience from homeworld gems with the situation would probably depend more on how quickly they're used to Diamonds just executing insubordinate gems, than how long their lifespans are. But it's not like they can do anything about it either way if they get impatient because they clearly couldn't stop the rebellion without the corruption weapon, and their only other option is to defect, and not all of them are going to do that.

edited 23rd Jun '17 4:19:37 PM by xanderiskander

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010

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