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32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#50501: Jun 6th 2017 at 6:54:43 AM

Also, regarding trying to save Pink Diamond... depending on just how far Rose got into the assault before PD's forces realized what happened, it might have been too late. If Pink Diamond's forces didn't realize what had happened until PD was already cracked, what could they have done? Healing is an exceptionally rare power, after all (look at the surprise whenever Steven shows a gem for the first time that he can do it); it's quite possible that there really wasn't anything that could be done by the time PD's forces were sufficiently aware.

Huh... something that I just realized... while I'm sure that I'm not the first to think of it, I haven't seen it discussed yet, so I'll share the realization that there is a plausible explanation for everything surrounding Pink Diamond's shattering that hasn't been brought up in the show yet. It incorporates the fact that Pink Diamond was left curiously unguarded, with not even a Pearl by her side, and yet still means that Rose Quartz shattered PD - Pink Diamond was suicidally depressed, and decided to effectively commit Suicide by Cop, with Rose Quartz being the chosen warrior to end things. It could even explain the discrepancy about Rose supposedly using the sword that can't shatter a gem for the shattering, and how a Diamond's power would have been needed to shatter PD - Pink Diamond boosted Rose somehow, and that boost is what gave Rose the power to shatter PD. The more I think of it, the more plausible it seems - there are some gaps, most prominently, what was the root of Pink Diamond's suicidal thoughts, but it does fit the information we have so far, and it also would explain a lot about Rose and how she's acted in various flashbacks.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#50502: Jun 6th 2017 at 7:08:21 AM

I think it was something like a code geass situation were pink diamond try to suit for peace but SOMETHING happen that make Rose shatter her.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#50503: Jun 6th 2017 at 7:12:31 AM

[up] I mean, Yellow Diamond seemingly has the power to disrupt Gems' bodies and Blue Diamond can control their emotions. White Diamond being able to control minds and/or having various other psychic powers would seem plausible, though we have no real evidence for or against that at this point beyond the discrepancies in eye witness testimonies about Pink's death and what plausibly could have happened.

edited 6th Jun '17 7:13:33 AM by CaptainCapsase

RandomWriter413 Since: Feb, 2016
#50504: Jun 6th 2017 at 9:00:34 AM

Hm. Perhaps Pink's depression, if the theory were true, could have to do with the rebellion causing trouble.

I mean, she was born to rule Earth, her first colony, and then everything goes to heck.

That'd be a little depressing.

JoyandPeace heartless from fishbowl space Since: Jan, 2016 Relationship Status: In another castle
heartless
#50505: Jun 6th 2017 at 10:00:09 AM

I think Pinks death has to be tied to the rebellion some how- we know right after she was shattered, Homeworld more or less nuked the rest of the crystal gems- which is why I have a hard time believing Rose quartz would willingly kill Pink Diamond if she knew the fallout would be that severe.

Bide your time, and Hold out Hope — GANKUTSUOU Just because it's irrational, doesn't mean it's not real.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50506: Jun 6th 2017 at 10:01:59 AM

Why would you assume she would know how they'd react? There's been nothing to indicate Rose or any of them knew about...whatever causes corruption or the scale of things, until it happened.

edited 6th Jun '17 10:03:06 AM by LSBK

RandomWriter413 Since: Feb, 2016
#50507: Jun 6th 2017 at 11:42:41 AM

There's no reason to believe Rose thought the Diamonds would react as they did.

She likely thought they'd freak out, and she could negotiate terms and conditions for a peaceful end to the war.

She likely didn't know of the bond between the diamonds being as strong as it did.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50508: Jun 6th 2017 at 11:50:14 AM

And even knowing what happened, Garnet still considers shattering Pink necessary to end things. The consequences should not somehow be taken as evidence that Rose wouldn't go through with it, no matter how you look at them.

superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#50509: Jun 6th 2017 at 8:30:28 PM

Pretty sure that means Rose was framed by the Diamonds. But that's just me.

One thing for sure, all these new revelations will lead to a SHIT load of revolts among Homeworld loyalists.

EDIT: Oh shit. Didn't read the whole comment above. Sorry about that. :P

edited 6th Jun '17 9:12:49 PM by superboy313

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50510: Jun 6th 2017 at 8:36:33 PM

We've been over why that would be unsatisfying and defeat the purpose of a lot of stuff they've written so many times now, I'm not going to retread it.

edited 6th Jun '17 8:37:10 PM by LSBK

InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#50511: Jun 6th 2017 at 8:41:07 PM

I have nothing to add here except: 10 Episodes of Steven-Rose-PD Angst.

edited 6th Jun '17 8:41:18 PM by InAnOdderWay

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#50512: Jun 6th 2017 at 8:46:32 PM

@LSBK: It kind of detracts from Rose's character for it to turn out she didn't kill Pink Diamond, but at the same time, as things stand, there's the looming problem of how the hell the Crystal Gems can ever hope to win against Homeworld when the inevitable confrontation occurs. An Enemy Mine with the Gems of Blue Diamond's court and those formerly of Pink's court (including a certain Jasper if and when corruption gets solved) is one of the only ways I can think of that doesn't require a whole new plot element to resolve, and that's very likely what would happen if it turns out it was White and/or Yellow who did it.

edited 6th Jun '17 8:47:49 PM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50513: Jun 6th 2017 at 8:48:28 PM

Obviously there's more to it than we were lead to believe, and at least one Diamond being involved in some way seems to be a given now, but if this really does amount to "Psych! Rose really didn't do it after all!" I'm just going to have to call that terrible writing, no matter what comes of it.

edited 6th Jun '17 8:51:42 PM by LSBK

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#50514: Jun 6th 2017 at 9:02:41 PM

[up] For me it's more about whether, in a scenario where Rose was made a scapegoat, the reason for her keeping the truth even from her closest friends makes as much sense in retrospect as there being more to the story than we were initially led to believe.

InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#50515: Jun 6th 2017 at 9:22:29 PM

The obvious way to do the confrontation is: Fix Corruption ==> Raise Gem Army ==> Force The Diamonds into a Position Where Steven Can Use His Friendship-No-Jutsu ==> Make Friends In High Places ==> Use Friends in High Places to Deal With Not-Friends ==> Babality

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#50517: Jun 6th 2017 at 10:59:59 PM

[up][up] I'll confess, I feel like that plan's missing some steps.

Oh God! Natural light!
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#50519: Jun 7th 2017 at 5:19:12 AM

[up][up] It ain't perfect, but it's the general gist of things. Raise an army so that the Diamonds can't just say "fuck you pay me" and raze Earth to the ground. Probably some plot bullshit will prevent the Diamonds from just activating the Diamond Song and ending it all. That puts Steven in a position where he can talk to and try to reach the Diamonds. This will likely not be effective because narrative drama, but he will make some gains that will be essential to dealing with anyone who still opposes Steven. At this point we'll either see changes on Homeworld, or see Earth get some sort of autonomy from the DA in exchange for fucking off forever, which leaves the door open for future seasons.

32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#50520: Jun 7th 2017 at 6:58:12 AM

@50509 Attempting to square that circle is how I came up with my previous spoiler-tagged theory - what would make sense such that there was Diamond interference involved during Pink Diamond's shattering, but yet Rose Quartz is still culpable in PD's death? It was the most likely scenario that came to mind that fit all of those conditions.

That said, there's one running thought that I keep having - Eyeball is one variable that I have issues accounting for. She actually witnessed Rose Quartz's attack... yet, I keep reflecting back on how gems are "born" already knowing what they are and what they're supposed to do. I can't shake one nagging question related to that - is it possible to create a gem with "memories" already implanted? If so, it'd be possible for someone with sufficient influence in Homeworld to be an In-Universe Orwellian Editor, and that's very discomforting to consider.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#50521: Jun 7th 2017 at 9:12:41 AM

[up]Something tells me that either Eyeball was being fed lies throughout her life, or she's just being an idiot like most Rubies.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#50522: Jun 7th 2017 at 9:15:27 AM

Gem shapeshifting + Rubies being for the most part total morons.

The only other thing I can think of is that a gem might have some kind of super speed or time slowdown power that forced no one to be able to react to Pink Diamond getting shattered, but I think that would have been brought up during The Trial if that was the case.

Oissu!
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50523: Jun 7th 2017 at 9:26:49 AM

Well, we know there's a corrupted gem that can cloak itself. That could get her past the guards, and maybe future vision can't see something like that happen either if it can't be seen normally.

edited 7th Jun '17 9:27:59 AM by xanderiskander

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#50524: Jun 7th 2017 at 12:07:13 PM

I don't think "Surprise, (maybe) Rose didn't do it" came out of nowhere. I was under the impression that Pink Diamond's shattering happened after some kind of all-out attack from the Rebels against PD's headquarters, but apparently it was an undercover assassination mission carried out by a handful of gems at most. Or perhaps PD's death wasn't even a part of the plan.

I think Zircon raised reasonable points that, apparently, even the Diamonds were not clear about. Makes sense, considering neither of them were there. I think Zircon blaming the Diamonds is a red herring but I could maybe see White Diamond doing it, maybe Yellow if I try really hard, probably not Blue. I think it was either our Pearl, who managed to do it because she used to be PD's Pearl, or White Diamond (perhaps through a proxy). Or Rose, of course.

I think the biggest argument against Pearl being the one to do it is that she had already joined the Rebellion for a few hundred years - at that point PD's guards should know about that, unless they were, Idk, new Rubies because all of the old Quartz guard got bubbled. Another possibility is that Pearl tried and failed, however she was followed by Rose who accidentally/intentionally shattered Pink Diamond trying to protect her, but I find that unlikely. Or maybe Pearl did it in trying to protect Rose?

White Diamond is such a wildcard that most theories "White Diamond [thing]" all sound equally likely. Yellow Diamond being the one behind the murder, or at least being one of the gems behind it, would explain why she wants to destroy all things Earth-related, but we have no other argument in favor of that theory. One of the Diamonds being the conspirator could give a new explanation for the Mass Corruption: destroy all possible witnesses. Not that we need more, I think.

I guess Zircon's questions could be answered by "Rose was a fucking ninja," "the rebels had a cloaking gem on their side," "Rubies are stupid," etc., although I don't think all of those are, at this point in time, reasonable assumptions.

superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#50525: Jun 7th 2017 at 12:25:09 PM

Alright, time for something different, what do you think of the idea of SU having human antagonists? And I don't mean simple jerks like Kevin or Marty, I mean full-blown villains like the Homeworld Gems?

[down]Why not?

edited 7th Jun '17 12:30:11 PM by superboy313


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