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PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#50201: May 31st 2017 at 10:30:38 AM

Gems are shapeshifters, I still think it would be pretty easy for a gem to just shapeshift to look like Rose and kill Pink Diamond.

Now why Rose would go along with the story is a more interesting question, but I don't doubt the Crewniverse could come up with a plausible answer.

edited 31st May '17 10:32:19 AM by PhiSat

Oissu!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50202: May 31st 2017 at 10:31:16 AM

The way they did. They want people to believe she did it alone, somehow avoided future vision and all her guards to get close to her, and killed her in front of a crowd of people.Which is completely impossible.

Also, that was a rhetorical question meant to point out the uselessness of asking what you were asking. Homeworld has no reason not to make Rose out to be an evil villain, conspiracy or not. How else do you think they'd describe the leader of the rebel uprising? Linking them framing her in that light to the public as support of a conspiracy (existing or not) makes no sense.

[up]But that just leaves the question what would be the point of that? Even if they could pull it off, that would still be detracting much from Rose's character, and Steven's character arc as well.

edited 31st May '17 10:37:18 AM by LSBK

superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#50203: May 31st 2017 at 10:38:15 AM

Huh, I wonder what I'd be like if Eyeball was there for the evidence that one of the Diamonds may have shattered Pink.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50204: May 31st 2017 at 10:41:36 AM

Homeworld has no reason not to make Rose out to be an evil villain, conspiracy or not.
Oh. Well that was kind of my original point anyway. They're immediately biased against Rose and for their diamond based on where they come from so there's good reason to be skeptical of what they say, especially given the new information we have.

Likewise the Crystal Gems would be biased for Rose too, even if they didn't know anything about what happened.

And incur the wrath of Pink Diamond's thousands of subjects? Doesn't sound like a wise thing to do, Holly Blue.
I don't see how smuggling in a notorious rebel would gain any less ire.

edited 31st May '17 10:46:46 AM by xanderiskander

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50205: May 31st 2017 at 10:46:08 AM

The point was never that Homeworld said. The point was that everyone said it, presumably even Rose. And things might not be as simple as we thought, but going "Homeworld Gems said it but why trust them" doesn't mattet because that was never the crux of the argument.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#50206: May 31st 2017 at 10:49:25 AM

I miss Sugilite. I think we've seen every fusion in the series more recently than we've seen her.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#50207: May 31st 2017 at 10:51:00 AM

I don't see how smuggling in a notorious rebel would gain any less ire.

It would if they found a way to do it inconspicuously, which doesn't sound farfetched to me.

edited 31st May '17 10:54:17 AM by TyeDyeWildebeest

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50208: May 31st 2017 at 10:55:09 AM

[up][up][up]Actually, Eyeball is the only character we know of that has said they've seen it.

[up][up]Sardonyx: "She's not actually in this episode, do we still have to pay her? Yes? Fair enough"

[up] The thing I'm most confused about, that makes this whole thing strange is how they got around PD's Sapphire's future vision to get to her.

edited 31st May '17 10:59:15 AM by xanderiskander

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50209: May 31st 2017 at 11:01:55 AM

[up]Why do you keep equating seen with knowing? Do you think the Crystal Gems got all of their information about this from Homeworld and it just never came up with Rose personally, or anyone else for that matter?

And even with Eyeball, she's is very clearly, one-percent sincere with what she's saying. That doesn't mean she wasn't mistaken about something, but going "Why believe her because she's from Homeworld" doesn't make sense in this case either, with what we've seen and heard from her.

edited 31st May '17 11:03:25 AM by LSBK

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50210: May 31st 2017 at 11:03:01 AM

Because if they didn't see it Rose could have always lied.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#50211: May 31st 2017 at 11:03:03 AM

[up][up][up]That doesn't count. Sugilite's last real appearance was unvoiced and a couple seconds long in the Sardonyx arc.

edited 31st May '17 11:05:52 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#50212: May 31st 2017 at 11:03:15 AM

> The thing I'm most confused about, that makes it farfetch'd is how they got around PD's Sapphire's future vision to get to her.

Pink Sapphire probably saw it happening but not could not believe that someone would shatter her diamond,her dilemma was probably something like .."If I tell her someone is going to shatter her and I get it wrong they'll doubt my visions and consider me defective"

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50213: May 31st 2017 at 11:04:48 AM

That doesn't count. Sugilite's last real appearance was an unvoiced cameo in the Sardonyx arc.
The point of the quote is that it's a joke about how they can't pay Nicki Minaj to bring Sugilite back.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#50214: May 31st 2017 at 11:07:12 AM

Well, they can give her another unvoiced appearance.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50215: May 31st 2017 at 11:07:26 AM

Because if they didn't see it Rose could have always lied.

No one is saying that isn't a possibility. I think you said you're trying to be contrarian just to get people to think of new possibilities but that doesn't mean much if your not actively trying to introduce new possibilities and are just saying "everything is fishy. everyone lied", and that's it.

And you're also ignoring things from a storytelling standpoint, I think.

edited 31st May '17 11:08:36 AM by LSBK

32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#50216: May 31st 2017 at 11:07:44 AM

I can think of one way to get around a Sapphire's future vision easily enough - take out the Sapphire. Whether this is via poofing or just keeping your actual target away from a Sapphire, PD couldn't benefit from advice that she didn't get a chance to hear.

Also, for the weapon Rose supposedly used... I might have misheard, but I'm fairly certain that Blue Diamond said "a sword" was used, not necessarily "her sword." There remains the possibility that Rose had to pick up a different sword and used it.

I can think of another sinister possibility - what if there was a duplicate version of Rose's sword, one that could shatter a gem? If Rose grabbed the wrong one, she may have shattered PD without intending to.

Based on what's been said right now, though, I'm fairly confident that the actual situation is a combination of an assault by Rose Quartz and an inside job. Someone got wind of an advance strike by Rose, and manipulated things such that Rose would have a clear shot at Pink Diamond. In the confusion, someone made sure that Rose's actions would be far more lethal than Rose had originally intended. Or maybe someone subtly shattered PD while Rose was in a position to potentially do so, fooling everyone - including Rose - into thinking that Rose was a shatterer.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#50217: May 31st 2017 at 11:16:22 AM

No one is saying that isn't a possibility. I think you said you're trying to be contrarian just to get people to think of new possibilities but that doesn't mean much if your not actively trying to introduce new possibilities and are just saying "everything is fishy. everyone lied", and that's it.
I was kind of hoping other people would come with ideas. But okay.

How about if Pink Daimond undermined her own security to meet with Rose because her entriage would have never allowed it under normal circumstances?

There was also someone that had a theory that the reason Steven has mind hopping powers is that Pink Diamond was mind hopping into Rose at the time.

edited 31st May '17 11:20:57 AM by xanderiskander

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#50218: May 31st 2017 at 11:18:04 AM

Sugar recently mentioned that Save the Light would include fusions. Here's one in-game.

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#50219: May 31st 2017 at 11:19:44 AM

Maybe we'll get the Mutliverse fusion in Save the Light?

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#50220: May 31st 2017 at 11:34:23 AM

What if Rose didn't actually shatter Pink Diamond, but poofed her and bubbled her gem- and that's what's in the locked chest in that pink dimension

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#50221: May 31st 2017 at 11:34:55 AM

@Pink Sapphire discussion: There may be gems that can block a Sapphire's vision or that simply have passive abilities that mean they can't be seen by future vision.

Alternately, the Sapphire/s could have been taken out beforehand, but wouldn't that have put Pink Diamond on alert and made her retreat inside her palanquin? (Unless her Fatal Flaw was pride or something and she just thought she couldn't be harmed) Something is very strange about all this for sure, even if it turns out Rose did do it.

Oissu!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#50222: May 31st 2017 at 11:39:48 AM

> How about if Pink Daimond undermined her own security to meet with Rose because her entriage would have never allowed it under normal circumstances?

I think it's plausible that being the youngest diamond she may have been naive enough to think that she could talk Rose out of her rebellion without grasping she would get shattered instead,

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#50223: May 31st 2017 at 11:52:32 AM

Before Pink Diamond was shattered, how many would have thought any Diamond could be?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#50224: May 31st 2017 at 11:55:53 AM

Not many I would guess. Before defecting Peridot referred to them as "absolutely flawless individuals" and took that as the reason for why they're in charge. I have to imagine that that's the dominant sentiment, and obviously the completely perfect can't be killed like we can, right?

Then Pink was shattered and well...the narrative probably changed a little, but not much, I'd imagine.

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#50225: May 31st 2017 at 12:16:53 PM

Honest question: If Rose did shatter Pink Diamond, does that really make Rose a "war criminal" under any definition as Steven apparently thinks? It's not as if Pink was an innocent bystander or a civilian. Under most definitions, would her assassination constitute a war crime?


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