I just remember the defense specified at least part of Rose's job when she still worked for Homeworld: She was a stratagem.
I'm going to Hell for laughing at this and taking you guys with me
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edited 31st May '17 3:19:54 AM by SalFishFin
Re: Quartz Swords Can't Shatter Pink Diamonds:
Okay so there are a few things to consider from a narrative standpoint with any perspective on the issue. People have brought these points up before, I just wanted to put them into list format.
1. We've spent 10 episodes so far on the "Steven feels bad because his mom is actually an interstellar war criminal who assassinated a galactic tyrant" storyline. At this point making Rose completely innocent in matters would be kinda cheaty. This casts shade on both theories that paint a Diamond as the true culprit, and on theories that state that PD planned her own death.
2. Introducing a new character to solve long running mysteries is also kinda cheaty. Therein lies my issue with most WD theories, putting WD as the Big Bad seems like a cheesy way to absolve every character in the show so far of any real guilt, because there was actually a real villain who did everything, we really don't know about them and their existence up to this point has only been through implication, not direct statement. If the answer to the mystery isn't even guessable up into the 5th season of the show, it gets a little stupid. While I think WD IS an actual member of the DA who for some reason or another is never around when she needs to be, she could very well just be a symbol for Homeworld or a fusion or a spaceship. That being said, the images we get in Lapis's backstory and Centipeedle's backstory imply that the Corruption Song was a joint effort by Blue Diamond, Yellow Diamond, and White Diamond, which implies that at the very least WD isn't a fusion that requires Pink Diamond to be around.
3. Pearls are an interesting wrench in the equation here. Because we know that they're important, they've been hinted to be important for a long time now. They work extremely high up in the caste system despite effectively being slaves, even for such a rigid caste system as the Gem hierarchy. We've only seen Pearls around important figures like war heroes (like Eyeball implies) or Diamonds, and it is very, very strongly hinted that Pearl's backstory, her full backstory, has long running ties to the rebellion, considering how long Pearl's been with Rose. I have to say, I was skeptical of "CG Pearl shattered PD on Rose's orders" theories before, but honestly I'm partially convinced now. Partially. There is actual concrete evidence against it though. If PD was shattered after The Answer, Pearl couldn't have been with a Diamond still. She was a known, key figure in the rebellion from an early stage, along with Rose Quartz. Still, I do think the existence of a Pink Pearl is implied strongly enough that I wouldn't be surprised if we saw her in a flashback. That being said, Point 1 still applies here. This is just a personal opinion, but I feel like Rose has to have been the one to personally strike PD down. Anything less feels a bit... much.
4. That all being said, there is some genuinely shady shit around PD's death, and that cannot be ignored. There is 100% a twist being hinted at that we don't quite get yet. The way I see it, the best way to do things would be to make it so that there was some external factor that gave Rose (or potentially a Pearl) the perfect opportunity to shatter PD, a factor that may have been induced by someone like YD.
I have a feeling whoever killed PD, Rose was willingly a key part of the plan. Either to act as a diversion from the real killer or as the actual culprit with friends in high places.
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.As long as Rosey was willing to do it it...
It's all good.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.I can only see two reasons, why the Bismuth two parter would do that. Either we're supposed to think this new information doesn't add up with what we know from Bismuth, or the witnesses are wrong, and she gave in and used the breaking point to kill PD. But if the witnesses are wrong about something simple like that they could be wrong about pretty much anything else.
edited 31st May '17 9:25:34 AM by xanderiskander
I could see Padparadscha's power being useful if it could be directed (say to see what just happened to another group of gems or to keep track of Steven, for instance) and if the poor thing could turn it off and focus on the present every once in a while. It doesn't seem like she can stop the visions though, which is kind of horrible when you think of it. She can't even tell that the things she's seeing have already happened.
Then again, maybe she just doesn't know how to stop the visions, and needs a friendly Sapphire to teach her how.
... I hope she interacts with Garnet at some point.
Oissu!![]()
Rose wanting to avoid killing when possible and not being willing to kill are not the same thing. Bismuth wanted to make it a point to shatter every enemy they fought. That was what Rose wouldn't abide. They had been fighting the war for centuries; it shouldn't have to be specify that during that time they killed their enemies, even if that wasn't their specific intention.
I'm slightly behind, because for once my streaming service (Sling) is actually about a day behind (instead of a week ahead) of broadcast... but I see that my biggest issue with "The Trial" is not just my issue.
I feel like that there might be some sort of Bait-and-Switch going on - namely, Rose didn't use her sword to poof Pink Diamond... she used someone else's. That said, yeah, something definitely doesn't add up. Blue Zircon is right that it seems really fishy to think that Rose Quartz was able to just get by everyone and take down Pink Diamond all by herself. This isn't to say that Rose didn't do what she was accused of, but I strongly suspect that it was an inside job.
Oh, side note, I was fascinated to learn a bit more detail about the rebellion. I had wondered for a while whether PD's death kicked off the rebellion or was later on in the process. Now I know.
Finally, interesting to note that bubbling is air-permeable. Good thing for Lars that it was.
Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.edited 31st May '17 9:34:42 AM by xanderiskander
You're making a pretty big assumption assuming it was a sudden decision. The war was going on for centuries; she wouldn't have needed some sudden epiphany, she would probably just need to see centuries of death and think that one death might be able to end. People think things like that all the time.
Edit: Honestly it sounds like you're trying to add even more sketchiness to the situation. How exactly would you think Homeworld would explain it? And Garnet straight up said that destroying Pink was the only way to make sure they'd leave Earth. We don't know the exact details, but the reasoning is not hard part here.
edited 31st May '17 9:41:54 AM by LSBK
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Because.
Pearl and Garnet.
Said so.
What's more significant is that not only does Garnet acknowledge that Rose killed PD, she justifies it. It's fairly clear that Garnet, one of the wiser characters on the show, is not inherently opposed to the idea that PD's death was necessary, which makes it dubious that we are supposed to be opposed to it to the point of seeing it as a point to Rose having been framed.
As for why PD's death was necessary, well, Earth was her planet. Her only planet if the mural is anything to go by, which suggests she would never have given up and let go of it. With thousands of years of fighting and probably thousands of deaths in those years, it's not that far-fetched to assume Rose would have seen killing PD as being for the greater good.
edited 31st May '17 9:43:59 AM by DrDougsh
Also, it wouldn't make any sense for them to lie about that. Why would they tell him about such a dark part of Rose's history, one that would forever taint the way he saw his mother, if it didn't actually happen?
Unless there's part of the story that even they don't know, which I guess is possible. As Garnet said in Rose's Scabbard, Rose kept a lot of secrets - even from them.
edited 31st May '17 9:59:56 AM by TyeDyeWildebeest
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!Pink Diamond's death:
- Eyeball says she was present at the time and witnessed Rose shatter Pink.
- Garnet says that Rose shattered Pink.
- Bismuth says that Rose's sword wasn't designed to shatter gems. It may be impossible to shatter a Gem with the sword.
- Blue seems convinced that Pink was shattered by Rose's sword, though I'm not sure why.
- It is very suspicious that Rose was able to get close enough to Pink to shatter her at all. Pink's entourage should have stopped Rose. Either they weren't around Pink at the time or a member of Pink's court helped kill Pink.
- Another Diamond may have wanted Pink out of the picture.
That's a lot of points, and I feel like some of them conflict with one another. Like, Eyeball was there, but the rest of Pink's entourage did nothing? I'm not sure why Blue thinks Pink was shattered with Rose's sword, but the way Bismuth was talking about it I don't think it CAN shatter a Gem. Maybe it can? I'm not sure there's a single explanation that will account for every single point.
edited 31st May '17 10:13:24 AM by WillKeaton
Maybe Rose used the sword to poof Pink Diamond, and then used the Breaking Point or some other weapon to finish the job once PD's gem dropped to the ground. The witnesses only saw the first part, so they just assumed that Rose did the deed with the sword alone.
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!Moreover, it's nonsensical. Pearl probably has no ability to avoid future vision, and she had a reputation before it happened so she wouldn't have been able to get her close to her anyway. And if she had the help of a Diamond to get close that's redundant, because if the Diamond wanted to PD dead they could have easily just killed PD themself. It's too much extra stuff to really make sense.
And to be clear. I like to play devil's advocate sometimes, and argue for things people aren't supporting to lead the conversation to new perspectives.
edited 31st May '17 10:23:17 AM by xanderiskander
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New perspectives need things actually packing them up. Your questions don't seem particularly constructive, to me.
She didn't have to be there to know about it. This is most certainly the type of thing they would talk about. Whether or not Rose was entirely truthful is anoyher matter.
edited 31st May '17 10:27:23 AM by LSBK
And incur the wrath of Pink Diamond's thousands of subjects? Doesn't sound like a wise thing to do, Holly Blue.
For real, that's just asking for a violent insurrection.
Conspiring with Rose makes more sense, since it gives the Diamonds the ability to pin everything on her and avoid the blame for PD's shattering entirely.
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!

It's also kind of low hanging fruit theory-wise. Most people aren't psychiatrists and they don't really understand that stuff anyway so the audience, for the most part, won't know any more than them.
I agree. It annoys me that it feels like characters can't just be quirky, they have to be representative of some kind of mental disorder. Similar to how every historic figure who was smart and kind of eccentric is speculated to have had autism.
I think Paparapapa is just meant to be a gag character. She comes off to me as not being completely aware of what's happening around her, hence why her "future vision" seems wired to only portray events that just happened a few seconds ago.