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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#47251: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:11:29 AM

I don't quite get what you're saying. What's wrong with telling people like Ronaldo to fuck off?

Oh really when?
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#47252: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:15:36 AM

If you're saying that their intent was that straight, white male fans shouldn't be watching the show, I think that is frankly ridiculous - I am all of those things, and I can assure you that I wasn't offended in any way by this.

This strikes me as just a reminder not to be a giant douchebag to other fans.

Oh God! Natural light!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#47253: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:16:49 AM

[up][up]"This show is not for you. Go watch something else."

"Well maybe I will! And I'm gonna tell all my friends to stop watching this show!"

And that's how fandoms die.

edited 27th Feb '17 6:17:19 AM by Beatman1

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#47254: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:20:01 AM

Well, if this is how they're going to react to criticism, then maybe they should leave - it seems like all they do is complain and cause trouble.

Oh God! Natural light!
Paint. Star Bot Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#47255: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:25:36 AM

>tfw you enjoyed this episode cause you thought it was funny, but apparently everyone hates it

sad

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#47256: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:26:14 AM

Hey, I liked it! You're not alone here.

edited 27th Feb '17 6:26:31 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Paint. Star Bot Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#47257: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:29:02 AM

[up] Yeah, but I'm not a avid viewer of Steven Universe, so seeing all this discloser and stuff about "white males" makes me kinda confused

I just popped in watching this episode on Friday cause I was bored, and I thought it was pretty funny on how CN pulled that 180 on me

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#47258: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:30:57 AM

Well, discourse like this can be overwhelming, yeah...

Oh God! Natural light!
Paint. Star Bot Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#47259: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:35:18 AM

[up] I didn't even know that peolpe take a show so seriously?

Maybe because I don't usually watch this show (I'm planning to change that) but holy shit, guys... Clam down

It's just a TV show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ugebzq3juE

edited 27th Feb '17 6:35:46 AM by Paint.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#47260: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:38:00 AM

People outside a target demo don't like being told they're the bad guys. I'm not justifying it, I'm just trying to understand it.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#47261: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:45:36 AM

[up][up] I don't think it's quite that simple, although I'll admit that I really don't like how far some people take it.

[up] I think this episode was calling out a pretty specific group of people, so if someone is offended by Ronaldo's portrayal, then I feel like that begs the question of why that is. Nowhere do they say that every male fan of the show is like Ronaldo.

Oh God! Natural light!
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#47262: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:48:26 AM

FWIW, during a Twitter Q&A (posted in full here), one of the writers made it explicitly clear that all kinds of people are welcome in the fandom:

How do you feel about the people saying SU is ONLY a show for trans/women/agendered people? Pretty silly, right?

Incredibly silly. It's for everyone. Choose love.

edited 27th Feb '17 6:48:36 AM by TyeDyeWildebeest

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#47263: Feb 27th 2017 at 6:54:26 AM

The thing that I didn't like about the episode is that it kinda made Steven into a hypocrite.

One of the major threads that has been in several plot-critical episodes of late is that Steven is resentful and angry over just how many secrets have been kept from him. It's an evolution of his earlier issues about how the other Crystal Gems sidelined him for being too inexperienced to partake in missions - there is always something that the Crystal Gems are holding back from Steven.

Turn around to this episode, and there are some pretty basic things (like how gems aren't just "given out," the whole deal with weapon generation, or just the sheer amount of training both Steven and Connie have undergone) that Steven just doesn't bother letting Ronaldo on. I'm not defending Ronaldo in this episode - he was a Jerkass for most of the episode (and others in this thread have already amply covered the details of that), up until the end there. But I really didn't enjoy Steven doing the same things that he complained that Garnet and Pearl did that upset him so much.

I ended up watching a different show with a similar "don't be that fan" episode this past weekend as well, and I'm starting to think that such episodes, regardless of show, might just be a bad idea in general. I get why a show runner might want to make such an episode, but it really comes off as a No True Scotsman strawman that either annoys, offends, or is ignored.

That said, I did have two moments from the episode that made me giggle. One was Amethyst's awkward "Uh... I didn't say anything," which just struck me as hilarious for reasons I can't articulate. The other was the pointless dramatic leap away (followed by a leisurely stroll) when they were dropping Ronaldo off back home - that may beat out "Garnet leaping from a moving van and rolling away" in terms of best non-sequitur humorous moments from the show.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#47264: Feb 27th 2017 at 7:14:59 AM

[up] I guess that makes sense, although I'm not entirely sure that the situations are equivocal - sure, Steven probably could have volunteered more information, but I feel like Ronaldo never asked either.

I ended up watching a different show with a similar "don't be that fan" episode this past weekend as well, and I'm starting to think that such episodes, regardless of show, might just be a bad idea in general. I get why a show runner might want to make such an episode, but it really comes off as a No True Scotsman strawman that either annoys, offends, or is ignored.

Really? What show was that?

Oh God! Natural light!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#47265: Feb 27th 2017 at 7:19:25 AM

What the hell does Voltron have to do with this?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#47266: Feb 27th 2017 at 7:28:37 AM

[up]An example of "those people in a fandom".

As it stands, no one wants to be "that guy" which is why episodes about "that fan" don't work that often. Add in Ronaldo and you have a recipe for anger.

People disliked Andy too, but I really feel like a lot of that was mitigated by the Memetic Mutation of his voice being Carl from Aqua Teen. Ronaldo has no such crutch.

kyun Since: Dec, 2010
#47267: Feb 27th 2017 at 7:29:30 AM

I didn't see the episode but I saw clips of it on You Tube.

... I now know why this warranted a fresh new page here any time I so much as navigate to Tvtropes in the span of 3 days.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#47268: Feb 27th 2017 at 7:39:50 AM

[up][up] Look, if they won't listen and change their behavior, I still think they deserve to be called out. The way that these people act is just unacceptable.

Oh God! Natural light!
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#47269: Feb 27th 2017 at 7:41:53 AM

Yeah, I just genuinely don't see the problem with calling fans who act like Ronaldo out.

Oh really when?
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#47270: Feb 27th 2017 at 7:48:41 AM

The argument as I see it that acknowledging their existence gives them undeserved attention

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#47271: Feb 27th 2017 at 7:54:01 AM

[up] Basically "don't feed the trolls" then?

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#47272: Feb 27th 2017 at 7:54:17 AM

Well, I'd argue that you shouldn't ignore a problem when you see it.

Oh God! Natural light!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#47273: Feb 27th 2017 at 7:56:13 AM

[up]Give the episode credit for starting a dialog.

But I wonder if it would face the same backlash if it was someone besides Ronaldo in the Straw Fan role. Like a new character voiced by the guy who played Master Shake or something.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#47274: Feb 27th 2017 at 8:00:10 AM

Yes of course,you always try and address problems if you see them,however,this problem isn't something you can fix,because the people in question aren't going to see the error of ways without getting even more entrenched

It's better off ignoring them all together and avoiding headache that comes with dealing with them

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#47275: Feb 27th 2017 at 8:01:43 AM

@47261 Well, it's not like Steven knew to just ask about Pink Diamond's shattering, or Bismuth's bubbling (though on that one, it's fair to note that nobody around knew about that, either; it's on Rose to have left a note... relatedly, that leaves the Fridge Horror of the idea that Rose may have intended to have Bis bubbled forever), or heck, even the deal about the Sea Spire (side note, that episode is still my least favorite). Sure, it really didn't help that Ronaldo didn't ask, but Steven didn't even try to explain.

The only time, in my memory, that Steven did ask and get rebuffed was in "Steven's Dream." I honestly think that the episode would have been stronger if Steven had at least made the effort to reach out and educate Ronaldo and be rebuffed instead of not saying anything until Ronaldo pushed Steven too far. I just really expected more out of Steven.

As for the other show, well, due to my Internet going down yesterday and my kid wanting to see what I watched when I was younger, I popped in Freakazoid! (which went over surprisingly well, considering just how much of that goes over a 3-year old's head, but that's another subject entirely). This included the early episode with Fanboy!, and that was not much better than "Rocknaldo" (with most of the humor actually deriving from The Thing That Would Not Leave Offscreen Teleportation). The two episodes were drastically different in execution... yet they left me equally unsatisfied. I'd probably have to sit through a few more similar episodes in quick succession (I seem to recall Phineas and Ferb also having one, and I'm sure others could toss out some examples, though anyone inspired to do so should send a PM), but I have the sinking feeling that they'll all feel similarly awkward.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

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