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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#45101: Nov 22nd 2016 at 5:59:47 PM

You forget that him being physically there is actually very dangerous because of his reality warping...he only needed to make deals to expand the chaos.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#45102: Nov 22nd 2016 at 6:37:08 PM

Not to mention the HEAVY implications that if freed from that barrier at Gravity Falls, Bill could cause mass destruction across all of existence.

InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#45103: Nov 22nd 2016 at 7:45:21 PM

I actually take back what I said on Bill. Any scrublord psychic can stomp Bill in the dream realm, he was taken care of by a couple of snotnose kids with relatively little struggle.

The issue is that Bill, left to his own devices, is a straight up, no exaggeration, reality warper. I wouldn't go so far as to call him an omnipotent, and he certainly wasn't omniscient, but without a really, really damn strong magic/psychic user on your team you're almost certainly fucked.

The Lich is a different matter altogether.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#45104: Nov 22nd 2016 at 7:52:13 PM

Little struggle until he just stopped everything and left...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#45105: Nov 22nd 2016 at 8:41:35 PM

I actually take back what I said on Bill. Any scrublord psychic can stomp Bill in the dream realm, he was taken care of by a couple of snotnose kids with relatively little struggle. The issue is that Bill, left to his own devices, is a straight up, no exaggeration, reality warper. I wouldn't go so far as to call him an omnipotent, and he certainly wasn't omniscient, but without a really, really damn strong magic/psychic user on your team you're almost certainly fucked. The Lich is a different matter altogether.
Except that Bill was CLEARLY shown to have more control over the dreamscape than the kids were. When they tried to force them out of Stan's mind, Bill ended the fight without any effort. Not to mention the fact that he was far from beaten based on how he let them go.

But we're getting off-topic here so would the Lich or Bill, based on how they're portrayed, work as villains in SU.

edited 22nd Nov '16 8:42:19 PM by superboy313

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#45106: Nov 23rd 2016 at 12:39:07 AM

I do agree that Bill was more powerful than he let on in "Dreamscaperers". I'm not saying that he would have killed Dipper and Mabel if he had really tried...but he probably could have.

Superboy, I have to admit, you ask these questions a lot, and they're honestly kind of difficult to answer, mostly because it can feel like you're trying to fig a square peg into a round hole. Both Bill and the Lich are very different and considerably more powerful than what we've seen here, and the dramatic shift in tone they bring (very dark comedy and outright horror, respectively) clashes with a lot of the Steven Universe aesthetic. I'm not saying they couldn't be made to work here, but it'd be rather difficult.

edited 23rd Nov '16 12:45:17 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#45107: Nov 23rd 2016 at 2:08:23 AM

We don't know quite what Homeworld is capable of. They do seem to have the knowledge to create pocket dimensions (The Temple, Lion, the Roaming Eye) and Time Travel. Bill did handle Time Baby easily, though.

InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#45108: Nov 23rd 2016 at 5:36:25 AM

I'm talking more generally who would win terms here. For starters, if Bill is a jobber in universe, he'd probably job hard in a fight too. It doesn't matter how strong you are, if you aren't willing to make good use of it it's generally meaningless.

Regardless, none of the kids had ANY supernatural mental abilities in the dreamscape. He was done in by simple mind erase, which implies that his defenses aren't THAT strong. Bill may be more powerful than he's letting on, but does he really need to be, for the purposes of plot? In that case you could just say that Soos is an omnipotent that just doesn't use his full force in any scenarios that appear in the terms of the plot.

In any case, Homeworld definitely couldn't take Bill. Not that Bill would be able to find the necessary cracks in reality to escape either.

ewolf2015 MIA from south Carolina Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
MIA
#45109: Nov 23rd 2016 at 7:46:54 AM

what's going on here?

MIA
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#45110: Nov 23rd 2016 at 9:11:02 AM

for some reason they are talking about gravityfalls and weather bill Cipher or the Lich from Adventure Time could do something in Steve Universe

edited 23rd Nov '16 9:11:23 AM by Ultimatum

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superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#45111: Nov 23rd 2016 at 9:11:59 AM

[up]Just some stupid shit I came up with.

Anyways, let's forget about the whole power things, alright?

Bill has a Freudian Excuse much like Lapis or Jasper. Does he fit in with the tone of SU?

edited 23rd Nov '16 9:18:32 AM by superboy313

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#45112: Nov 23rd 2016 at 9:30:16 AM

I dont think he does,so he doesn't really fit

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#45113: Nov 23rd 2016 at 9:35:55 AM

anyway

The Gravity Falls thread is that way —————————->

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Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#45114: Nov 23rd 2016 at 9:39:39 AM

Thinking laws of physics ruin his fun =/= living in oppressive empire that discourages individuality and self-worth.

Bill doesn't have an excuse, he has a reason for what he's doing - something that pretty much every villain or other character has, and his is still much vaguer that most.

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#45115: Nov 23rd 2016 at 10:08:06 AM

S=I've never seen much of GF, and don't have much of a desire to do so, so I can't offer any contributions.

Plus, I find "who would win?" questions to be rather silly/meaningless when it comes to crossing universes with wildly different mechanics.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#45116: Nov 23rd 2016 at 10:15:33 AM

Sorry to backtrack but I was asleep and wanted to throw in my two cents.

A difference between Kevin and Jasper is that while Kevin is a jerk, he seems completely satisfied with his life. He's a rich jerk that likes to tweak people.

Jasper has been in a series of shitty situations since we met her that could be alleviated by a redemption arc. Despite her bluster she doesn't actually seem to like herself very much. She has very similar problems as Amethyst, actually. People look at how Peridot and Lapis have changed from their initial appearances thanks to their arcs and want something like that for Jasper.

A redemption arc would move Jasper to a better place than trapped in a fusion, trapped in the ocean, trapped on Earth, corrupted and bubbled. Redemption wouldn't change Kevin's situation very much. Steven would be okay with interacting with him more but it doesn't seem like he lives in the immediate area anyway.

edited 23rd Nov '16 10:16:44 AM by Bocaj

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#45117: Nov 23rd 2016 at 10:21:40 AM

I dont think Steven will 'redeem' Jasper,but he'll probably go out of his way to stop someone similar who heading down their path.

edited 23rd Nov '16 11:05:49 AM by Ultimatum

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superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#45118: Nov 23rd 2016 at 11:50:49 AM

On a side note, what do you think other Lapises are like?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#45119: Nov 23rd 2016 at 12:49:19 PM

Possibly some Lapises have their gems on their lower back and look silly when they fly

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#45120: Nov 23rd 2016 at 1:35:13 PM

I wonder what role they have in Homeworld's caste system?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#45121: Nov 23rd 2016 at 1:38:06 PM

Since they have power over water I imagine they are very high up.

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superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#45122: Nov 23rd 2016 at 1:43:16 PM

But from what I hear, there's barely any water on Homeworld.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#45123: Nov 23rd 2016 at 2:09:13 PM

We saw what seemed to be our Lapis in Blue Diamond's court in The Answer. She may be a member of the aristocracy

Oh really when?
BlueBlaze64 The Watcher on the Tower from Empire City Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Watcher on the Tower
#45124: Nov 23rd 2016 at 2:41:41 PM

I'm just hoping that there will be a "Life on Homeworld" flashback episode (or even series of episodes) that shows what it was like to live on that planet before the rebellion. And since Lapis described it as having changed since she was last there, I'd want to see an episode from her perspective as to what she saw, just to contrast with that first flashback episode.

Maybe Lapis Lazulis used to be high-ranking members of Blue Diamond's court because of elegance or some other nonsense, but aren't anymore because in a new, technocratic, militarized Homeworld, they don't serve a purpose.

"The cruelest thing you can do to an artist is tell them their work is flawless when it isn't." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#45125: Nov 23rd 2016 at 2:43:34 PM

I like the theory that Lapis's are teachers and that Homeworld either has become dependent on tablets to teach Gems what they need to know for their job, or has just figured out how to program that information into a Gem from the get go.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.

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