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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44976: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:10:03 PM

I don't think that's what they were going for, in all honesty.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#44977: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:11:09 PM

No, but that's what's happened.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#44978: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:11:12 PM

Yeah, don't try to come to an understanding with or change the minds of people who you don't agree with to show them why their misconceptions are wrong. Berate them. Shun them. Tell them they're garbage. That's definitely the solution and in no way a cause of how we're in this goddamn Trumpian nightmare in the first place.

My various fanfics.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44979: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:12:25 PM

I feel like you're reading into it a bit differently than I am.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#44980: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:13:40 PM

Hey look at that: Were on the 1,800 page.

Cool. [tup] [awesome]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#44981: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:14:43 PM

I've spent my whole life trying to change the minds of bigots. Hasn't worked, and they're still out there treating people like me like filth.

To see a show that tries to be supportive of LGBT youth go and show these people in a sympathetic light is a huge betrayal.

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#44982: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:17:18 PM

Andy never makes any anti-LGTB comments (which, granted, wouldn't have been allowed on a kids show), even when he mentions that his aunt has a "partner." The worst he gets is calling the Gems illegal aliens and that Greg didn't marry an American, which Greg does call him out for.

Still think it dropped at the wrong time, though.

edited 19th Nov '16 12:20:09 PM by SilentColossus

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44983: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:18:54 PM

It dropped at a really wrong time. I mean, I guess I'm a bit more empathetic towards Andy because I, admittedly, held view points that were rather bigoted early on, but to be honest, even though I can understand him, I don't like him.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#44984: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:20:14 PM

Some people in life are Kevins, but they are the exception.

You know, that's been bothering me since I got into this fandom. Why is Kevin, of all people, the designated Hate Sink?

For context, I became a fan of the show early into Season 2. This was long before the drag racing episode (I forget the title), so at the time, Kevin's one and only appearance was at the end of "Alone Together". Even then, he stood out as the only character who nobody in the fandom could sympathize with even a little. And that's just bizarre to me, because the worst thing he did was aggressively flirt with Stevonnie and refuse to take no for an answer- which was creepy and gross, yes, but it's not like he tried to kill them. Which several other characters did.

I'm sorry, I just can't make sense of that. Steven is this All-Loving Hero who extends an olive branch of friendship to gems after they try to murder him. But Kevin goes all Johnny Bravo on Stevonnie at a rave, and for some reason that's crossing the line. How does that work?

As an aside, Kevin's behavior was shockingly similar to Jasper's at the end of Jailbreak, when she forced Lapis to fuse with her. So why was Jasper getting the Draco in Leather Pants treatment immediately after Season 1 while Kevin wasn't?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#44985: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:22:07 PM

Because Kevin hits closer to home than Jasper does. A lot of women have encountered men like Kevin, and don't have any sympathy towards him as a result.

Also, this is just kind of a personal thing, but Jasper didn't force Lapis to fuse. Lapis went along with it and then turned on Jasper. Jasper tried forcing the corrupted gem to fuse, and it lasted less than a minute. Malachite lasted a year.

edited 19th Nov '16 12:23:28 PM by smokeycut

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44986: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:22:59 PM

Also, to be fair, what Jasper did at the end of Jailbreak involved Lapis also kind of doing it too. Lapis even admits she was also abusive in her relationship with Jasper.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#44987: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:26:36 PM

I still don't quite get Kevin. maybe he's just a symbol for that doughy guy who appears here and there to be douchey. A side comment, nothing more.

In any case... the truth is that for a lot of LGBT kids they have no choice but to sit at the dinner table with that one relative. They can't run, they can't fight, they can't leave. For these kids, making peace isn't their best option, it's their only option. THAT is why this is an important lesson.

I get that you have your own bad experiences to go off, and I get that you don't feel that everyone can be saved but... this is the show. To do anything BUT this route would betray the themes of the show.

edited 19th Nov '16 12:37:52 PM by InAnOdderWay

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#44988: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:38:48 PM

Also, to be fair, what Jasper did at the end of Jailbreak involved Lapis also kind of doing it too. Lapis even admits she was also abusive in her relationship with Jasper.

See, I've heard that a lot from the fandom, and I don't agree. Yes, Lapis blamed herself for being "abusive" with Jasper, but Lapis blames herself for a lot of things.

She was only keeping Jasper in bondage because it was the only way to stop Malachite from destroying Steven and his friends. Her first instinct was to fly away, but Jasper wouldn't let her do that, so she had to resort to other measures. I don't fault her for how she behaved between Jailbreak and Super Watermelon Island.

[up][up][up] Okay, that I can understand. I've heard a similar explanation for why Madam Umbridge is more hated in the Harry Potter fandom than Lord Voldemort. Few readers have faced an enemy like Voldemort, but a lot of readers have had a teacher like Umbridge.

edited 19th Nov '16 1:07:52 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44989: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:41:00 PM

She could've broken the fusion at any point once she knew Steven was safe...they didn't have to stay that way.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44990: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:41:14 PM

Lapis technically also did that to Jasper because of her own personal vengeance. "You're my prisoner now!" and all that. I mean, hell, Jasper fucking suffered in there to the point where she wanted to be abused by Lapis.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#44991: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:43:02 PM

@Malachite: Lapis had a lot of options. Alone At Sea showed that as long as water is nearby, she can kick Jasper's ass. Lapis chose to fuse with Jasper, because we've seen time and time again that fusion has to be mutual on both ends, especially in order to last an extended period of time. Malachite was the longest fusion we've seen aside from Garnet, and Lapis admitted to liking it, and to liking hurting Jasper. Jasper admitted to liking it, and liking the power.

Hell, the crewniverse have said that Lapis isn't a good character necessarily. One of her primary traits is being manipulative. She and Jasper were both awful.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#44992: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:49:12 PM

Is a little bit diferent:

Kevin is background character a best while Jasper will become part of the main cast somewhere in the future(how good is redemption quest will hold?....that is uncertain) so there is less reason to attach him, the other is what I call "personal evil" where a character commit something unpleasent and yet mundane, against "abstract evil" which IS evil but more focus in universe of the show like the Diamonds

It also the fact Steven hate him and since he is all loving hero....

"A side comment, nothing more."

He was part of the aseop about not letting a bad experience consume you, Steven when to teach him a lesson to the point he misused fusion, is a little bit cliche but so far that only haven twice in the show(the other being Drop beat dad)

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#44993: Nov 19th 2016 at 1:07:32 PM

@Malachite: Lapis had a lot of options. Alone At Sea showed that as long as water is nearby, she can kick Jasper's ass

Oh yeah, that's right... I forgot about that episode. :/

Yeah, on further inspection, Lapis really wasn't blameless. Still, I'm inclined to believe that her motivation for staying fused to Jasper wasn't entirely selfish. Remember that when Peridot dug her a swimming pool as a token of friendship, Lapis coldly told her that it reminded her of her months in bondage. "It was an endless, crushing darkness, wet and bleak and suffocating," as she put it. If it was that awful and she could have unfused at any time, why didn't she?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#44994: Nov 19th 2016 at 1:13:25 PM

[up]To protect Steven who was the only one She cared(in part because he was the only one who care for her) aside for that she did to Stop Jasper and to engage in a some mesure of revenge against her.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44995: Nov 19th 2016 at 1:18:36 PM

[up][up]Because she wanted to take her frustrations out on Jasper Gem...that's also part of it, remember?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#44996: Nov 19th 2016 at 1:25:56 PM

Kevin is a hate sink because of this combination of callous and extremely personal that makes the perfect fuckboy. All other villains, when they do bad things to you, it's either because it's Nothing Personal and you just happen to be in the way, or because they are driven by personal loathing, usually involving deep-seated insecurities. It's rare for them to want to use and hurt you for its own sake.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
SalFishFin Since: Jan, 2001
#44997: Nov 19th 2016 at 4:05:12 PM

Also to bring this back to Andy, can I just say that explaining =/= justifying?

Snape's shitty behavior toward Harry specifically is because he looks exactly like the boy who tormented and bullied him while he was at school. Nowhere in the text does it state that it was okay for him to act like that, it just offered a reason why h was doing it.

Likewise, in no way was it said that it was okay for Andy to act the way he was, he even says himself that he didn't have to be stuck in the past since he had the capacity to visit whoever the hell he wanted anyway.

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#44998: Nov 19th 2016 at 4:14:31 PM

Maybe it's just me then who finds the guy sympathetic. Sure he's not the greatest person ever, but you don't grow older with firm beliefs and change over night. Under his own views, he gave them a chance, tried to eat with them, listened to their stories, and had an understandable reason for feeling alone and left out. He's no Keven, even if he's hard to like for understandable reasons by most.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#44999: Nov 19th 2016 at 4:16:07 PM

The difference is Kevin is actively malicious with an intended goal of upsetting people. Andy is just an idiot.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#45000: Nov 19th 2016 at 4:19:34 PM

Why is idiot?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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