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sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#44951: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:01:16 AM

Ah, I tend to equate bigot with racist and/or intolerant.

That said, I think my point still stands. Outside of the illegal aliens remark, he never had a serious issue with the Gems that didn't relate to their overrunning his family's barn and messing with his stuff. He was perfectly willing to be decent to the Gems, for Steven's sake if nothing else. His real hostility was mostly reserved for Greg. Hell, when he ran away at the end it seemed more like he felt like he didn't belong. That may go with your definition of bigot, but I don't personally see it that way.

EDIT: You know, it just occurred to me I described a man who flies around in a biplane in a sci-fi fantasy show as stuck in the past.

edited 19th Nov '16 9:05:46 AM by sgamer82

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44952: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:07:39 AM

Admittedly, this conversation has been fairly civil, if a bit tense. Better than the last giant debate we had.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#44953: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:10:18 AM

[up][up][up]But most of the time means someone who is racism,sexist,etc

You know.....in certain way I can relate to Andy, no in his opinion but in his problem of thing changing: my family from my mother side used to have a tradition: we went my grandmother house and spend there the last hours of new year, usually with fireworks, food and plenty of fun......and yet things have change and now few familiar show up to do this as everyone is to busy with their lives, for worst my grandmother just pass away this year and im pretty sure the tradition would be lost soon, things change and it get frustrating at times because is like having your worldview move or shatter for not reason at all ....

And yet,if something, the best part of the episode for me was how Andy admit he could kept in touch with his family thanks to is plane but he didnt because he didnt want to change, I feel same way right now, I have a girlfriend and she told me I could learn how to drive to kept in touch with my family and now she is getting more and more close....sometimes you have to find a way to deal with it.

....Or well, this is how I related to this episode, im not from the states so my experience will be diferent, just a opinion here

edited 19th Nov '16 9:15:56 AM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#44954: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:16:25 AM

But Andy WAS called out on it. The Gens were ready to kill him, he was basically excluded from the group, Steven nearly died... and in the end, he became more accepting and understanding.

EDIT: The reason that Sugar deals so often in heavy metaphors (Gem politics as a stand in for whenever they can't go full political, fusion, Gem culture, etc.) is because it helps people open up to concepts that they would have shut themselves off from before. That's the magic of the show.

It's just... I can't help but feel dissappointed when an episode finally peels back a little bit of that analogy and suddenly people revert to their prior states, showing that to some degree they consciously separated Steven Universe from how "the real world" should work. And we imagine up convoluted scenarios and justifications to reason why it's okay that they didn't hate this guy, because he isn't actually a part of the group that would actually make him unworthy of love, just so that we can avoid admitting that when the show says that "everyone is deserving of love", they actually mean "everyone".

It's why I'm a little bothered when people humanize Peridot and Jasper into these very diverse, social justice friendly characters. Obviously I don't care if you think that human Peridot is black or Asian or whatever, in fact I tend to like those humanizations a bit more, but that it sort of removes is further from the fact that, in a real world scenario, old Peridot and Jasper... probably would have voted for Trump. Peridot because she sees him as obviously the most logical and strongest leadership position, and being the equivalent of a white nerd from Minnesota doesn't really know any experiemces outside of her own to refute his hateful claims. And Jasper, who might be better imagined as an Iraq War vet stuck in a mutually abusive relationship with his wife with plenty of uncomfortable sexual undertones for all, definately would vote for someone like him. I'm not making statements for what they would really be like if they were real humans, but that if imagining these characters that way makes you uncomfortable, then you can suddenly better understand why the gems were so slow to warm up to them, and why Steven, doing what he does and being who he is, is the most important part of the show.

edited 19th Nov '16 9:29:05 AM by InAnOdderWay

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#44955: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:31:01 AM

[up]He was called out and he seen to understand it was wrong, just they nature of is wrongess was more stubbornness rather than outright bigotry

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#44956: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:31:01 AM

The way the gems act to humans is often bigoted, even just in this episode. Pearl's comment that "Our Greg is clearly the superior one." is at least as bad as anything Andy said. Despite Peridot and Lapis clearly understanding the concept of property, they had to be talked out of just taking whatever they wanted from people they didn't know.

Outside of the illegal aliens remark, he never had a serious issue with the Gems that didn't relate to their overrunning his family's barn and messing with his stuff.
His bigotry is mostly toward "hippie" social movements he was associating the gems with. Half of his behavior it was (rash) judgement of their actual actions, the other half was projecting resentment onto them.

However, Andy did said "A hobo is a man's job!", which (despite the absurdity) is clearly supposed to show he's at least a little sexist.

edited 19th Nov '16 9:31:24 AM by thatother1dude

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#44957: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:42:51 AM

Better than the last giant debate we had.

If you don't mind my asking, what was that one about?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#44958: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:46:14 AM

" when the show says that "everyone is deserving of love", they actually mean "everyone"."

Except KEVIN!!!!!!

" Peridot because she sees him as obviously the most logical and strongest leadership position, and being the equivalent of a white nerd from Minnesota doesn't really know any experiemces outside of her own to refute his hateful claims"

I feel if we go that route. that she is more closed to "Berine or bust" kinda deal(at least if we go with season 2 peridot) as she dislike Pettiness over logic, once Peri start to investigate how the wall cost and how he plan to make it....yeah, that is out.

But yeah, what you said about Jasper is very spot on

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44959: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:46:22 AM

[up][up]

Here's a hint: Big, orange, has hair like Raditz, and buff.

edited 19th Nov '16 9:46:37 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#44960: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:53:38 AM

Honestly, I think Peridot might strongly disagree with the concept of democracy.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44961: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:56:04 AM

They've yet to vote for anything.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#44962: Nov 19th 2016 at 9:59:42 AM

[up][up] Does she even have a concept of democracy. By all accounts the Diamonds rule Homeworld without question.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#44963: Nov 19th 2016 at 10:01:23 AM

[up][up]but you can vote in homework: ether you both for the glorious diamonds or you vote for your shattering

seeeee?tongue

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#44964: Nov 19th 2016 at 10:03:44 AM

It's why I'm a little bothered when people humanize Peridot and Jasper into these very diverse, social justice friendly characters. Obviously I don't care if you think that human Peridot is black or Asian or whatever, in fact I tend to like those humanizations a bit more, but that it sort of removes is further from the fact that, in a real world scenario, old Peridot and Jasper... probably would have voted for Trump. Peridot because she sees him as obviously the most logical and strongest leadership position, and being the equivalent of a white nerd from Minnesota doesn't really know any experiemces outside of her own to refute his hateful claims. And Jasper, who might be better imagined as an Iraq War vet stuck in a mutually abusive relationship with his wife with plenty of uncomfortable sexual undertones for all, definately would vote for someone like him. I'm not making statements for what they would really be like if they were real humans, but that if imagining these characters that way makes you uncomfortable, then you can suddenly better understand why the gems were so slow to warm up to them, and why Steven, doing what he does and being who he is, is the most important part of the show.

Thank you, that was beautiful.

Some people in life are Kevins, but they are the exception. The rule stands: show compassion and understanding.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
BagofMagicFood Since: Jan, 2001
#44965: Nov 19th 2016 at 10:15:22 AM

Here's a hint: Big, orange, has hair like Raditz, and buff.
Oh! You mean that pie Pearl said she liked?

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#44966: Nov 19th 2016 at 10:17:32 AM

Does she even have a concept of democracy.
Clearly not, I meant if someone explained it to her she'd reject it immediately.

Thinking about it more, all the gems would feel the same way if they had an opinion. The Crystal Gems broke from their caste system during the rebellion, but Rose was seemingly a benevolent dictator autocrat. It's not exactly a great sign that, when Rose rejected the Breaking Point, Bismuth thought that Murder Is the Best Solution.

Since the Crystal Gems' functional population shrank to five when the rebellion ended, they never had to experiment with formal governance. They probably wouldn't see why their informal meritocracy would fail on a larger scale.

edited 19th Nov '16 10:18:15 AM by thatother1dude

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#44967: Nov 19th 2016 at 10:36:18 AM

They discuss things as a group but Garnet is the de facto leader and Amethyst tends to get ignored because she says she'll be the crocodile but never commits.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#44968: Nov 19th 2016 at 10:53:18 AM

Clearly Alligator-chay is the most logical answer.

BagofMagicFood Since: Jan, 2001
#44969: Nov 19th 2016 at 11:27:03 AM

You raise some good points, InAnOdderWay, about how the alternate history means we need to view some groups differently. Most of the Crystal Gems were not just "alien hippies" but part of the imperialists who started to wreck Earth's ecosystem, and now they seem to be laboring under a "White Gem's Burden" to protect Earth from what they left behind, though they still don't always respect human property rights that much. (At least they let us keep most of our land!) So if Andy can bring himself to forgive privileged white people, then why can't we? evil grin

Yinyang107 from the True North (Decatroper) Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
#44970: Nov 19th 2016 at 11:47:14 AM

Man that username is perfect. "You raise some good points, in an odder way..." tongue

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#44971: Nov 19th 2016 at 11:52:14 AM

So are some of you saying that it wouldn't have felt weird, given the tone and spirit of this show, if the Gems just beat the shit out of Andy and told him he was a piece of shit?

My various fanfics.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#44972: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:01:03 PM

When did I say thats what I wanted?? I said I wanted them to actually explain to Andy that it isn't okay to be stuck in the past, rather than having it be an excuse for him to act the way he does.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44973: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:02:09 PM

Isn't that what he more or less comes to a conclusion of at the end?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#44974: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:07:27 PM

Andy himself admits that he fucked up and that he created almost all of the circumstances that made him upset. No one else needs to beat Andy up emotionally, he does that to himself before he and Steven even land.

My various fanfics.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#44975: Nov 19th 2016 at 12:08:11 PM

Not really. It felt like they were basically saying "hey, it's fine for you to be stuck in the past because you're lonely!"

And honestly, my ideal version of Gem Harvest? Don't include everyone having a happy thanksgiving with a bigot. Because all it makes me think of is the fact that Trump is gonna run the country, and LGBT kids (who watch this show) are gonna have to go to thanksgiving dinner with their bigoted extended family members and suffer.


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