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TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#44926: Nov 18th 2016 at 8:48:57 PM

We don't even know if Donald Trump exists in this universe, so I don't know if we ought to be characterizing Andy as a "Trump supporter".

Yeah, some of the things he said were similar to the rhetoric used by Trump's camp, but it's just not reasonable to say, "Oh, he said something nasty about hippies and illegal immigrants, which means he'd probably support Trump, which means he also probably believes that [insert bigoted viewpoint here]."

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#44927: Nov 18th 2016 at 8:56:03 PM

And Homeworld aren't literally in universe homophobes, but it's fairly obvious what they were depicting. This show doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's made by people who do live in the real world, and as a result the show is influenced by the real world.

diyedas Since: Feb, 2010
#44928: Nov 18th 2016 at 9:04:31 PM

Andy just seemed like an older fellow with some outdated values and was the type that didn't like changes. There's many elder people like that, because they were grew up in a very different time and can't keep up with how the world keeps changing. I dunno, I think the SU crew were going for a typical elderly relative, and many probably had some like that in real life.

InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#44929: Nov 18th 2016 at 9:08:13 PM

Honestly I trust the Crewniverse too much to not think they intended SOMETHING political with this episode. They are one of the most self-aware creative teams I've seen in a long time, and they have this intrinsic ability to be able to sort through such a confusing mess of concepts and feelings and emotions and just make something good through it all. It's what makes the show so good. Even just the jarring way Andy directly brings up America as a concept which brings in politics into the universe in the safest way possible. And honestly, with the circumstances, it's exactly the right time and place for this episode to air, even if that wasn't the plan originally.

edited 18th Nov '16 9:09:10 PM by InAnOdderWay

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#44930: Nov 18th 2016 at 9:17:04 PM

I was OK with Andy mostly because being a second-generation Chinese American I have relatives who are kinda like that. Yeah, they can be pretty racist, sexist, and homophobic at times, because of old-fashioned Asian immigrant values. And some of them are also Republican-leaning and yes, supported Trump, though it's more because people fleeing from communist dictatorships make for easy Republican prey than because they're hardcore bigots or Christian evangelicalsnote . But if nothing else these people love their family, and in some cases that's been enough to get them to evolve on certain issues, especially as it crops up more and more among the younger generations.

edited 18th Nov '16 10:15:55 PM by AlleyOop

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#44931: Nov 18th 2016 at 9:51:55 PM

Judging Andy by his actual actions, he is a relatively tolerant person if you understand what that means—he still thinks the gems are a bunch of weirdos, but once Greg explained they weren't just squatters, he was willing to see them as people.

He's certainly better and faster in that respect than say, Peridot. She just doesn't have quite as direct a real life analogue for you to project onto her.

BlueBlaze64 The Watcher on the Tower from Empire City Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Watcher on the Tower
#44932: Nov 19th 2016 at 1:14:34 AM

Whenever I've seen someone defend why they voted for Trump, it was always despite what he's said, not because of it. That doesn't entirely justify it, but it is something worth considering. I looked at his platform on his website, and some of his policy related pages actually had some good ideas. Let me be clear, I would burn my house down and sell myself to China before voting for him, but to say the only reason people voted for him is what he said in his speeches is not being fair. Voting for someone does not mean you support everything they say and do. People saw two choices, and went with the ones that went along their party lines, just like every other election. There's a reason Johnson had so many votes. There were a lot more people this election on both sides who didn't want to vote for either candidate.

That's not to say that his historically dividing speeches didn't motivate some people. I mean, I'm a racist, and I found them offensive. I'm pretty sure some of the people who voted for him really do want every non-straight and non-white person out of the country. But to write off every Trump supporter as a xeno/homo/transphobic race/sexist monster who doesn't deserve to live and will never be convinced of anything isn't really helping. Those people only make up 10-20% of his supporters. The key is try to get to the other 80-90%. If your goal is just to wait for them to die, then good luck waiting for the next 20-50 years. Fighting hate with shunning or more hate just makes the hateful people less motivated to change their minds. Unfortunately, in this day and age being able to simply find a place/webzone/news source full of nothing but opinions you already agree with, it's getting harder and harder to convince anyone of anything nowadays.

To get this back to the show, I think the episode stumbled a bit by characterizing Andy as a conservative in a very stereotypical way. And giving his motivation in a rushed way near the end of the episode didn't help either. But for a show with such progressive themes and people behind to make a conservative character and not just make him a strawman to be proven wrong or beaten up is very admirable. Not just because it shows open-mindedness without hypocritically rejecting different opinions, but by extending a sort of olive branch to the conservatives willing to listen to what they have to say. So I'd say it would be justified not to want to engage in heavy discussion with someone who doesn't like you, but don't write off every member of a group just because of some bad experiences with a member, or the extreme side that's constantly talked about.

Holy crap, that was longer than I thought.

edited 19th Nov '16 1:16:14 AM by BlueBlaze64

"The cruelest thing you can do to an artist is tell them their work is flawless when it isn't." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44933: Nov 19th 2016 at 1:24:33 AM

If something felt rushed, it's probably because of the first couple of minutes being unrelated to pretty much everything else...but they probably didn't want to dwell.

A lot more setup time was wasted in "Gem Harvest" than in the previous 1 hour episode.

edited 19th Nov '16 1:33:36 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Austin Since: Jan, 2001
#44934: Nov 19th 2016 at 5:14:55 AM

A fairly civil discussion about political beliefs. Well done, all.

reallytired Since: Nov, 2016
#44935: Nov 19th 2016 at 6:31:52 AM

I still don't understand why episode about Steven 's boring and dull uncle needed to be 20+ special. Also, still don't understand why can't Lapis properly interact with other gems.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#44936: Nov 19th 2016 at 6:49:42 AM

> A fairly civil discussion about political beliefs. Well done, all.

dang it,you may have jinxed it

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#44937: Nov 19th 2016 at 6:52:14 AM

I still don't understand why episode about Steven 's boring and dull uncle needed to be 20+ special.
Because then there'd be no room for the other half of the episode, which was the gems having a holiday together.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#44938: Nov 19th 2016 at 6:56:41 AM

[up][up][up] In the latter case, Lapis has just a little lingering animosity towards the Crystal Gems (excluding Steven) over the "trapped in a mirror for millennia" thing. I don't know if she still does, but she also held the belief they knew she was there and did nothing. She had some anger towards Peridot, too, that eventually smoothed over. The only people she is actually confirmed to like are Steven and Peridot. I think she's okay with Greg. She hadn't pushed him off a roof at least.

edited 19th Nov '16 7:01:10 AM by sgamer82

reallytired Since: Nov, 2016
#44939: Nov 19th 2016 at 7:19:57 AM

I know, just wish she would talk to someone who isn't Steven or Peridot. The same problem with Rose-centric episodes and how they are all almost only about her relationship with Greg.

edited 19th Nov '16 8:05:43 AM by reallytired

Explosivo25 How fleeting... from Beach City Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How fleeting...
#44940: Nov 19th 2016 at 7:42:55 AM

I'm sort of surprised that everyone was willing to make jokes about some of the stuff that's happened over the course of the series. You'd think that they'd still be at least a little tense or uncomfortable talking about it.

I don’t even know anymore.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#44941: Nov 19th 2016 at 8:28:43 AM

Humor is one way people cope.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Chariot King of Anime Since: Jul, 2014
King of Anime
#44942: Nov 19th 2016 at 8:29:07 AM

Trash episode is trash. Who thought it was a good idea to make an entire episode about the Gems trying to accommodate a bigot and never acknowledge his bigotry?

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#44943: Nov 19th 2016 at 8:29:26 AM

[up][up]There was nothing really disturbing about Peridot's story anyway.

[up]What do you consider "acknowledging"?

edited 19th Nov '16 8:30:10 AM by thatother1dude

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#44944: Nov 19th 2016 at 8:32:50 AM

Andy struck me as less bigoted and more wishing things could be how they used to be. I know "Politics" right now means they're one in the same, but that's not the case for Andy, to me

edited 19th Nov '16 8:33:18 AM by sgamer82

InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#44945: Nov 19th 2016 at 8:38:46 AM

[up][up][up] I'm still not sure how you can even hold this opinion after Jasper and Bismuth were both very real and quality things that happened.

EDIT: And Peridot, for that matter.

edited 19th Nov '16 8:40:36 AM by InAnOdderWay

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#44946: Nov 19th 2016 at 8:42:40 AM

[up] I wonder if the issue is that being a prejudiced human hits just a little too close to home.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44947: Nov 19th 2016 at 8:42:43 AM

I don't really see anything wrong with being surprised that your cousin, who has a kid, never married the kid's mother, despite being in a long relationship with her. If he started getting preachy about it, that'd be a problem, but there's nothing wrong with just being surprised. Either way, every single thing he said was very understandable, if not completely aggreable. Finding your barn wrecked and being lived in by strangers would be concerning. Finding out that said strangers are illegal aliens from outer space would also be concerning. I can completely sympathize with him being upset that the first plane he ever flew was scrapped and the engine turned into a oven.

edited 19th Nov '16 8:44:03 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#44948: Nov 19th 2016 at 8:47:17 AM

@Odder Way: Andy's bigotry wasn't addressed or called out. Jasper and Peridot's bigotry were called out constantly.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#44949: Nov 19th 2016 at 8:51:00 AM

The question that just occurred to me, would Andy be called a "Bigot" if not for the whole Trump situation? Because to me, he seems less bigoted and more stuck in the past. As someone said earlier, had he started on "illegal aliens" and gone from there, there'd be a case. Here I'm sincerely not seeing it. As Pushover noted, his every real grievance is pretty legitimate, or at least not unreasonable.

edited 19th Nov '16 8:52:34 AM by sgamer82

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#44950: Nov 19th 2016 at 8:54:32 AM

"Bigot" has a broad definition. Generally it means someone who's close-minded and doesn't like people they see as different from themselves.

edited 19th Nov '16 9:01:26 AM by thatother1dude


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