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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#43601: Sep 24th 2016 at 7:37:26 PM

Its very confusing.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#43602: Sep 24th 2016 at 7:39:54 PM

Gay people are gay because we are attracted to the same gender, as opposed to the opposite gender. If a species is comprised of only one gender, they cannot be gay, because there is nothing to contrast it to.
No, that doesn't follow. Your logic is circular. All that would conclude is that they wouldn't have a concept of heterosexuality in ordinary circumstances. With being attracted to genders like themselves, or nobody at all being the default for their species.

Why would they need anything to contrast it to to be gay? They just are.

edited 24th Sep '16 7:48:35 PM by xanderiskander

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#43603: Sep 24th 2016 at 7:44:40 PM

I don't think this detracts from the value of these relationships in a kid's cartoon, but...well, I do think it falls into the Discount Lesbians trope.
My thoughts exactly.

I think the most irksome (common but definitely not universal) use of Discount Lesbians (and what Jim Sterling's rant in the article's quotes page denounces) is when the work treats a human's attraction to an alien as not significant to their sexual orientation, even when that alien bears a clear resemblance to a human sex.

That clearly is not happening with the gems. Mystery Girl's interest in Pearl demonstrates an attraction to women just as much as Greg, Dewey, and Jamie's respective interests in Rose, Pearl, and Garnet do.

Like, it's meant to depict lesbianism, but the Gems are from a single sex race where such distinctions don't exist.
I'd previously said the largest functional difference was the lack of Gayngst because female/female relationships are the only gem relationships, but now I don't think that even matters. The show just seems to be devoid of literal  homophobia because that's not something the show wants to cover. Sugar did say she wanted this stuff to be on children's television so non-straight children wouldn't feel like they're left out.

For example, as much of a chauvinistic douche as Kevin is, when he thought Steven and Connie both had crushes on him, he didn't comment at all on Steven being male.

It's not perfectly realistic, but it's not THAT unrealistic either, so I'm not complaining.

edited 24th Sep '16 8:33:39 PM by thatother1dude

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#43604: Sep 24th 2016 at 7:59:31 PM

That was kind of interesting actually. The fact that Stevonnie is two gendered kids doesn't factor into Keven's notion that they're both attracted to him. Especially so in fact, since he believes Stevonnie as a separate being doesn't exist. Also sexual assault parallels.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#43605: Sep 24th 2016 at 8:27:58 PM

I'm fine with catagorizing Kevin as a Depraved Bisexual, albeit his depravity and bisexualness don't appear to have anything to do with each other.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#43606: Sep 24th 2016 at 8:30:48 PM

Being flattered by (what he perceives to be) a male's attraction to him doesn't mean he is attracted to males. He clearly thought Stevonnie was female, for one thing.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#43607: Sep 24th 2016 at 9:32:31 PM

Kevin is more about his ego, he is flattered that two boys is trying so hard to best them, is clasical troll ehivor

Also when I code chararter, is usually about their role and whatever they try to said, in Pearl I always imagine her as subversion of the "Pretty white girl" who is always quite quiet,submisive, is pretty in a "clasical" way, usually she tend to dance ballet and in general is the subversion of "Little white flower", granted aparenly asian girl suffer saind steriotype so who knows, just my interpretation

With Bismuth....call me crazy if yo want, but I always feel there is a moral about erasing in the whole episode, as Rose(who you can code white) pretty much puff her and lie about what happen, Bismuth is angry because Rose who is very "life and let it be" erase her(which is why I think Rose side destroy all remanents of PD in earth), hell once Steven said he will tell her fate Bismuth said he is better than Rose.

My only issue is that her debate about shatter point is moot as Diamonds unleash her big song of FUCK YOU! over crystal gems, making anything produce by Bismuth pointless

pd: Also, for some odd reason I feel old homeworld(the one from flashback and stuff) look like british or some imperialist state, while modern homeworld remind me of a future fasicst state

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#43608: Sep 24th 2016 at 10:05:23 PM

I feel like Kevin's "sexuality" isn't even so much about gendered attraction so much as using sex as a power trip. Like a means to an end.

Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#43609: Sep 25th 2016 at 12:43:19 AM

Whoa, so many pages! Did new episode came out?...oh.

On unrelated, I have question, why are people so interested in Mystery Girl? Like, it's good for Pearl to move on and be happy, and shippers will ship, but she did nothing. As far as we know S stands for Satellite.

I'm asking because I saw many times before people gushing over non-entities (Volpina being most recent example) and then getting really frustrated when their headcanons are ruined.

The second Pearl X S relationship gets more serious and complicated and they will have argument about anything, I dread backlash.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43610: Sep 25th 2016 at 12:48:25 AM

Because Mystery Woman is "hot"...like black fire.

Because Pearl needs to be happy for fans to be happy...

They don't care about her non-existant character at the moment, but just Pearls development.

Maybe they'll want Mystery Woman to come back, only as a bonus.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
SalFishFin Since: Jan, 2001
#43611: Sep 25th 2016 at 3:18:11 AM

Oh, did I miss the race discussion? Welp.

On coding: honestly, the only two Gems that are obviously coded Black are Bismuth and Garnet. Like... Garnet has an afro (people of other ethnicities can have hair that resembles an afro, like Napoleon Dynamite, but only people of African descent have the hair texture capable of forming an honest-to-god afro), has the closest color to Brown skin, thick lips, thick thighs, and literally dances in a traditional African style. She's black as hell.

Bismuth's coding feature is more or less her dreadlocks (see what I said about afros up there? Same principle, with the addition that White People "dreadlocks" look like The Grinch's fingers and actually perpetuate the stereotype that dreadlocks are dirty because they have to actually not wash their hair and stuff), but her build, as well as her less saturated skin tone, also make her look a little more Black to me.

On Magical Negro: yeah, Garnet has shades of this, but it's mostly to do with her not having any internal problems. The closest thing that Garnet has to a problem is that Ruby and Sapphire have trouble getting it together when they separate for a mission because they're too busy being Sickeningly Sweethearts. So yeah, all she really does is solve problems for other people, but it might be counteract ed by the fact that she's such a stable, steady presence, where usually the Black woman is like... well, Bismuth, but less killy.

edited 25th Sep '16 3:22:18 AM by SalFishFin

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#43612: Sep 25th 2016 at 6:03:14 AM

I wouldn't say that Garnet doesn't have any internal problems. As two people though she's better about not letting it become a huge, awkward problem. Usually.

Ship Mates and the Test give you a peek into Garnet's worries.

She even has a kind of character arc where we see that when Rose was still alive she was a lot more open and she seems to be moving back in that direction.

Its not as obvious as Pearl and Amethyst's problems because she doesn't really sing her feelings unless its about being Stronger Than You Specifically Jasper but it doesn't mean she doesn't have anything going on.

edited 25th Sep '16 6:04:03 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#43613: Sep 25th 2016 at 6:06:49 AM

There's also the subtle way she grows to give Steven his space and learns to trust he can make his own decisions throughout season 1.

SalFishFin Since: Jan, 2001
#43614: Sep 25th 2016 at 6:43:13 AM

Well, by "internal issue" i more or less meant low self-esteem. Give or take a couple days, Garnet has been saying "I Love You" to herself for the better part of 5700+ years. She has zero huge hangups about her personality or her background, outside of whatever feelings she has about Rose's death that all of Steven's Moms have as a standard.

Yeah, there was a little arc about her becoming less of a stoic, but that was season 1. She only has problems when someone brings her one.

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#43615: Sep 25th 2016 at 6:56:47 AM

All I get from people complaining about how the show handles black coded people is basically you should never have a token minority be a villain, which is complete bull in my opinion.

Btw this is coming from someone who's black. It seems you literally have to walk on eggshells to not offend people these days.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43616: Sep 25th 2016 at 7:03:03 AM

Eggshells aren't that uncomfortable to walk on...

Unfortunately some people are just that sensitive...

Offending those people is very easy apparently...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#43617: Sep 25th 2016 at 7:20:04 AM

[up][up] It's not that people are "extra offended" now. People were always offended, it's just that now they're able to talk about about it.

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#43618: Sep 25th 2016 at 7:20:55 AM

[up][up] I just knew the moment the Bismuth episode aired people were going to have issues with that episodes purely because of what Bismuth was coded,

Had Bismuth not been coded black but was relatively the same would people truly be complaining about it "offending" them?

[up] I argue it is a case of people being extra offended, because some of the stuff I see people get offended by is pretty much subject that simply doesn't cater to their desires, they tend to feel completely priviage as if the world owes them something because of it.

edited 25th Sep '16 7:25:21 AM by GarnetRebeller96

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#43619: Sep 25th 2016 at 7:24:20 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43620: Sep 25th 2016 at 7:28:06 AM

[up][up]That'd be a "probably" on any race other than white...only depending on character behavior obviously.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#43621: Sep 25th 2016 at 7:31:42 AM

Could you list some examples? Because so far I see legitimate arguments for most things people find offensive. I know for a fact that there are some Unfortunate Implications in SU, because I've felt them.

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#43622: Sep 25th 2016 at 7:33:41 AM

[up] The recent tyrant rex incident.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#43623: Sep 25th 2016 at 7:37:17 AM

I'm going to need more of an explanation, because I have no idea what that means.

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#43624: Sep 25th 2016 at 7:44:02 AM

Sorry. Bassically another Zamii incident happen. AGAIN.

SalFishFin Since: Jan, 2001
#43625: Sep 25th 2016 at 7:46:18 AM

Having a Black(coded) character be an ultra-violent revolutionary isn't an issue in and of itself.

However, in the context of the current civil rights revolution going on, and in general how Black people are seen as inherently violent and dangerous, it is actually quite a thoughtless portrayal.

edited 25th Sep '16 7:46:40 AM by SalFishFin


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