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smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#41201: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:08:47 PM

Steven is the half alien son of a rebel leader.

Garnet is the stoic leader.

Amethyst makes jokes and screws around to hide her insecurities.

Standard doesn't mean bad. Those things are common in stories for a reason.

And how does hating herself mean she's going to sacrifice herself?

edited 23rd Aug '16 11:09:18 PM by smokeycut

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41202: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:13:22 PM

Because it's an obligation, the characters who feel the most bad for their misdeeds and hates themself for it tend to make a sacrifice as the final act of redemption...because it shows they've "really" changed.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#41203: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:16:04 PM

They managed to subvert a lot of cliches about victim of domestic abuse while holding true to that archetype with Lapis. I'll wait and see what they do with Jasper first.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#41204: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:20:24 PM

I think it's fine. It makes sense. Feels right.

I really don't give a shit about "standard", as long as it's done well. I mean, what would have been better to you?

Oh God! Natural light!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#41205: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:23:06 PM

[up][up] Basically how I feel. The show doesn't have a flawless batting average when it comes to avoiding overly trite or cliche plot points (see the execution of Drop Beat Dad) but for something important like this I'm more than willing to see how they'll handle it before passing judgment.

MsAmiClassified Tired of givin' up the ghost from the fucking ocean Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Tired of givin' up the ghost
#41206: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:26:43 PM

hasnt this show already gone over that self sacrifice is actually pretty terrible

didnt mean to post that but tbh theres not much more i couldve added

edited 23rd Aug '16 11:27:51 PM by MsAmiClassified

moved to Oceanstuck because this handle was starting to bother me my tumblr
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#41207: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:27:47 PM

Has it?

And this isn't self sacrifice, this is self loathing.

Oh really when?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41208: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:31:32 PM

Self-loathing leads to self-sacrifice for the formerly ev...not good people from a certain perspective.

Why does Jaspee hate herself anyway? Because she drove one Gem and one monster away?

edited 23rd Aug '16 11:33:09 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#41209: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:35:49 PM

Yeah, Jasper remaining corrupted isn't a sacrifice because it benefits no one. Jasper, a believer in the Just World Fallacy applies that same logic to herself, and ends up suffering an awful fate for it. I think this inherent belief in the world punishing "bad" Gems is why she is so keen on taking vengeance on Rose. But it also underlies the inherent contradiction in this worldview. If the world was fair (in Jasper's mind at least) Pink Diamond wouldn't have been shattered in the first place. Perhaps the key to her redemption arc, so to speak is getting her to recognize the flaws in how she sees the world.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41210: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:41:07 PM

I didn't say remaining corrupted was a sacrifice...until now it just seemed like pride overriding reason.

But apparently it's because of self-loathing...eh, that's fine.

edited 23rd Aug '16 11:42:41 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#41211: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:42:00 PM

Not pride, self hatred.

We all get what we deserve after all.

Oh really when?
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41212: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:43:21 PM

Yes, I did say "until now"...and "it seemed like".

edited 23rd Aug '16 11:43:52 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#41213: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:46:37 PM

I don't know if pride and self-loathing are mutually exclusive. I can see pride causing you to set very high standards for yourself, only for self-loathing to set in when you fall short of them.

I think that's probably what's happened with Jasper.

Oh God! Natural light!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#41214: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:47:22 PM

They're not mutually exclusive no. That kind of complexity and nuance is very much in line with how real people are.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#41215: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:49:12 PM

Though after this interview and her breakdown in Earthlings I have to wonder how much of what we saw with Jasper was actually pride and how much was just her grandstanding for her opponent.

Like the whole "We get what we deserve." bit was obviously for Amethyst given that Jasper knew she was listening.

Oh really when?
MsAmiClassified Tired of givin' up the ghost from the fucking ocean Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Tired of givin' up the ghost
#41216: Aug 23rd 2016 at 11:49:24 PM

suddenly im reminded of this one madoka scene

for reference im talking about how in ep 8 sayaka is offered a grief seed by homura, someone she has pegged as an enemy, knowing she would die otherwise. being that shes on a downward spiral due to losing the love of her life to someone else, not willing to go after him because she thinks being a meguca makes her subhuman and useless for anything other than doing the meguca thing, her response is essentially "who gives a damn"

edited 24th Aug '16 12:01:37 AM by MsAmiClassified

moved to Oceanstuck because this handle was starting to bother me my tumblr
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#41217: Aug 24th 2016 at 12:35:01 AM

Because it's an obligation, the characters who feel the most bad for their misdeeds and hates themself for it tend to make a sacrifice as the final act of redemption...because it shows they've "really" changed.

Jasper doesn't hate herself for her misdeeds. If anything it's the opposite, she hates herself because no matter how strong she is or how hard she tries, she can't do what she thinks she ought to be able to do, which in the present includes destroy the Gems and take righteous vengeance against Rose Quartz, and in the past meant protecting her Diamond from the rebels.

Or in other words: she doesn't hate what she's done, she thinks what she's capable of isn't good enough.

edited 24th Aug '16 12:35:48 AM by KnownUnknown

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#41218: Aug 24th 2016 at 12:58:53 AM

Maybe she hates herself because she somehow couldn't save Pink Diamond. A warrior who is loyal to one who is already dead, and resents someone from her own kind, a fellow Quartz. With her diamond gone, she truly feels...

Alone.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#41219: Aug 24th 2016 at 1:02:46 AM

[up][up]That's better than what I was actually thinking, but I was speaking in general in that quote specifically.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#41220: Aug 24th 2016 at 1:26:06 AM

And of course the last thing she hears from "Rose" is that "she" doesn't even remember the name of the Diamond she shattered had to be the last straw.

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
SalFishFin Since: Jan, 2001
#41221: Aug 24th 2016 at 2:15:49 AM

I don't know if pride and self-loathing are mutually exclusive.

As a wise man once said, "pride is not the opposite of shame, but it's source."

Malco from the Gungeon Since: Oct, 2015
#41222: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:07:46 AM

Is he sure? I mean, I have pride that I'm a Pokemon fan and I have no shame about it. [lol]

Plus humility causes shame too, like I'm ashamed that I've only watched up to Garnet Universe and I prefer to draw Connie fanart over actually watching the show. But at least all the episodes are ready and waiting; I'm just unable to Archive Binge.

My DA account... I draw stuff sometimes!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41223: Aug 24th 2016 at 6:25:06 AM

Standard isn't necessarily bad, but it strikes me as bad here because I don't think it's fitting. At least, depending on why she hates herself. If it's something like "I've done so many terrible things how could anyone ever forgive me" then, yeah, it's terrible and eyeroll-inducing.

There could, and is a good chance there's more to it than that, but just hearing that alone doesn't inspire confidence.

Edit: Also, a bit annoyed when people get so defensive just because someone mentions disliking something about Jasper.

edited 24th Aug '16 6:27:56 AM by LSBK

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#41224: Aug 24th 2016 at 6:26:20 AM

I'm like 99% sure it's because a "perfect" soldier like her let her Diamond die and her home be conquered.

How is it not fitting? It makes perfect sense. What even did you think Jasper was like?

edited 24th Aug '16 6:26:55 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#41225: Aug 24th 2016 at 6:29:17 AM

[up]Yeah, that's fitting but that might not be what happens. The only hint of self-loathing from her was in the last minutes before she got corrupted. I'm sorry if that leaves me going a bit "eh".


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