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TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#39426: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:03:59 PM

With all that in mind, I'm hoping that things aren't as simple as Garnet describes it. I want it to be that when we know the full story, it remains an open question if shattering Pink was truly the only option Rose had, or if that's just what Garnet tells herself so she can live with it. It seems like kind of a waste to introduce this huge, morally ambiguous point to Rose's character, only to have another character brush it aside by saying that it was the only thing that could be done.

You know... now that I think about it, it's hard for me to imagine a situation where shattering Pink Diamond was truly the only option. I'm not sure what she would accomplish by shattering her that she couldn't accomplish by poofing her, bubbling her and keeping her at the temple indefinitely. As far as I can tell, there's no limit to how long you can keep a gem bubbled.

Then again, she would run the risk that someone on her team would accidentally free her...

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#39427: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:05:16 PM

Eyeball said the war lasted a thousand years. I'm pretty sure this is the first time it's been explicitly stated how long the war was. Prior to this we've just been guessing based on people saying how the war was 6000 years ago and when Amethyst was formed.

lycropath Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#39428: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:05:26 PM

I'm thinking the implication is that Pink Diamond would never leave her colony to the rebels even after all her setbacks, where as the other Diamonds are willing to cut there losses and leave once Pinkie was out of the picture.

And the war lasted exactly 5500 years according to that one supplementary material book.

edited 10th Aug '16 6:06:26 PM by lycropath

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#39429: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:05:48 PM

What if their whole bodies are their gems, so trying to "poof" them will only shatter them?

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#39430: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:07:55 PM

Found it. 7th post here is why I thought we weren't getting any more episodes this week.
OK, I think I was wrong about it being simultaneous, but the next two episodes were revealed by the next weekend.

(Also, if you click on a post's timestamp you get a link to that specific post, not just the page it's on)

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#39431: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:10:11 PM

[up][up][up] Pretty sure you mean to say the war ended 5500 years ago.

We really need an official timeline to come out.

edited 10th Aug '16 6:12:38 PM by WillKeaton

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#39432: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:10:24 PM

[up][up][up]That should not be the case...

edited 10th Aug '16 6:11:00 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#39433: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:11:18 PM

What if their whole bodies are their gems, so trying to "poof" them will only shatter them?
Or their bodies are functionally indestructible, and shattering the gemstone is the only way to stop them AT ALL.

Burnett did make a tweet where he laughed at the idea of anyone poofing a Diamond, though I don't expect it to still be up.

edited 10th Aug '16 6:11:39 PM by thatother1dude

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#39434: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:14:12 PM

Or their bodies are functionally indestructible, and shattering the gemstone is the only way to stop them AT ALL.

Which would make perfect sense, because a diamond is the hardest naturally occuring substance on Earth.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#39435: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:14:13 PM

I found a post by someone that I think is insightful:

From a tactical stand point, the shattering of pink diamond does seem vital. She 'owned' the colony. Every enemy gem was dedicated to serving her. If they just bubbled her, the entire war would instantly shift from suppression to a rescue mission of Pink Diamond. And I don't think the guerrilla based rebels could keep something that safely locked away in one spot, or keep track of it while running with it. If we compare the gems to robots (and it is hard not to, when this show is practically a magical girl take on transformers), then this would be the destruction of their prime directive, leaving them unable to continue. At best, they can just go to homeworld, report what happened, and fall under the command of a new diamond, unable to pursue their true wants for revenge. The idea that the colony was 'owned' also seems interesting. Perhaps, rather than a cohesive whole, Homeworld is more akin to a collection of rival corporations that simply share similar interests and work together for certain goals. They each have their own separate networks and holdings to worry about. That would explain the...lackadaisical nature of the missions sent to earth. We have a grand total of three meager missions (peridot's first solo inspection, Jasper's trip to escort peridot after meeting resistance, and the rubies investigation of where jasper went), even though it has been such a long time period. Yellow Diamond has only personally shown her presence where an emergency line was illegally used. She is mostly focused on handling her own holdings, and earth is just a minor vanity project and checking up on some pet projects with the cluster.

edited 10th Aug '16 6:18:34 PM by LSBK

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#39436: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:16:41 PM

@LBSK: Can you put quotes from other posts in quoteblocks? Otherwise it's hard to tell where the repost ends and your comments on it begins.

(It's [[quoteblock]]textextext[[/quoteblock]])

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#39437: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:19:13 PM

[up]Done. Although the reason I didn't do it was because I didn't add anything to it. But, I'll keep that in mind.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#39438: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:21:06 PM

Hey, I don't want to start anything, but I'm curious about something. With all of the talk about Bismuth, do any of you know anyone who was uncomfortable with it because she was "black-coded"? Because I thought about that, but no one brought it up. And it honestly strikes me as reaching for Unfortunate Implications.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#39439: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:22:17 PM

So basically, what you're saying is this: the Diamonds are evil 80's businesswomen.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Austin Since: Jan, 2001
#39440: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:24:39 PM

(Also, if you click on a post's timestamp you get a link to that specific post, not just the page it's on)

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Steven Universe usually spreads out its big revelations more than what they've been doing lately. Think about it. In "Bismuth", we meet one of Rose's original soldiers, and find out that Rose bubbled her, and that she was opposed to shattering Gems. In "Beta" we find out that Jasper was born on Earth. In "Earthlings" we're told why Jasper is so pissed at Rose, and not only do we get confirmation that Pink Diamond existed, but that Rose did something to her. Since Jasper doesn't directly say that Rose destroyed Pink Diamond you might be inclined to think that maybe something else happened, but in the very next episode we're directly told that Rose shattered her. I'm not complaining about getting more answers quicker, but it does feel like a shift in how the show normally does things. It is a bit jarring to get so much information about Rose in such a short amount of time, especially since everything we find out either shifts our perception of her, or at least shows that she was more complicated than the other Gems like to acknowledge.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#39441: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:25:47 PM

With all of the talk about Bismuth, do any of you know anyone who was uncomfortable with it because she was "black-coded"?
On another board, I've notice people discussing this, but wasn't paying close enough attention to those posts to see if anyone actually did themselves.

Just from the leak clip, I thought her apron was kind of eye-brow raising—until I (correctly) guessed it was a blacksmith apron, and that I was stupid for thinking otherwise (gems don't need chefs—or archaeologists for that matter).

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#39442: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:26:20 PM

I understand the anger at how Bismuth was portrayed. Once she started talking about destroying the "upper crust", I knew exactly what was happening. Aside from the Unfortunate Implications in regards to large butch women, you could easily see Unfortunate Implications with a violently revolutionary black woman.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#39443: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:28:37 PM

@LSBK: Something I forgot to tell you about quoteblocks: you need to add multiple line breaks or "\\\" between paragraphs, otherwise the paragraphs will bleed together into one huge block of text.

Mr.Badguy Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#39444: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:30:34 PM

Bismuth is a phenomenal character, but, yeah, it's unfortunate.

Which is kind of a shame, since Steven Universe used to be the one work of fiction I could point to and say "see if you try and think these things through they don't happen."

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#39445: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:32:37 PM

I understand why that make people uncomfortable and wouldn't fault them for it, but we also have Garnet (who isn't human, but who is way more "black-coded" than bismuth) and the Pizzas as black characters, so I don't think it's a super decisive statement.

edited 10th Aug '16 6:33:32 PM by Draghinazzo

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#39446: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:34:21 PM

Honestly, if you're trying to show people as well, real people, I don't think you should be afraid to have them as heroes, villains, or in between.

Not all LGBT, POC, or religious minorities are good people just because they happen to belong to a marginalized group, and though you should obviously be careful to not try and further negative stereotypes, never casting people like that in antagonistic or villainous roles doesn't help anything. Especially if your going to treat the role with care and complexity.

It's a delicate tight rope, but I still think this show's approach is better than most.

edited 10th Aug '16 6:36:47 PM by LSBK

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#39447: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:35:49 PM

I see where people are coming about Bismuth, but I think part of it comes from the fact that most of the Gems are voiced by women of color and coded as such.

Also the revelation in what happened to Pink makes the conflict with Rose and Bismuth more complex. Rose's actions in the rebellion were a lot more political and cold than previously thought, and her bubbling of Bismuth could also be read as her preventing Bismuth from splitting the rebellion in half (those who want to stay on Earth and those who want to liberate everyone).

edited 10th Aug '16 6:37:09 PM by SilentColossus

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#39448: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:37:21 PM

I see where people are coming about Bismuth, but I think part of it comes from the fact that most of the Gems are voiced by women of color and coded as such.

I've never really seen Pearl as asian-coded because of Deedee Magno-Hall.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#39449: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:39:07 PM

I mean,honestly, if they based on the character designs on the voice actor and role in the story, then I think it's better that Bismuth is the way she is than going "Let's make her a little less black/big to avoid offending people".

[down]I think that statement fits well here.

edited 10th Aug '16 6:42:47 PM by LSBK

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#39450: Aug 10th 2016 at 6:40:27 PM

[up][up]

Perhaps, but I'm trying to avoid "white as default" here.


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