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Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#38176: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:15:11 AM

[up][up] At this point it's gotten bad enough to legitimately limit accessibility to the show.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#38177: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:15:26 AM

I was referring to all the arguing about the Tumblr side of the fandom. I thought it was considered drama importation to discuss stuff like that?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#38178: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:15:30 AM

It just seems really premature to call this an issue when there are only two examples, and both have very good reasons for being the way they are.

For me, it's less that some people are uncomfortable, and that they seem to be reducing things into simpler terms, to make their point. I can't get behind that.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#38179: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:20:01 AM

To get better representation you're going to have to accept the good and the bad. People do bad things. And bad things happen to good people. There's never going to be a "balance" of every type of character in every work, because every work has to end, and every work has to share enough time for every character.

In this case we're dealing with a series, not a movie so there probably will be better examples in the future, but you shouldn't have that expectation all the time. And the creator shouldn't have to shoehorn a different example to prove to you that the creator isn't sending a bad message. It would be better, and you'll be a happier person, if you just assume the creator has good intentions, when there is no reason to believe the contrary.

edited 5th Aug '16 10:22:31 AM by xanderiskander

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#38180: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:20:38 AM

Also keep in mind that when it comes to representation, how a marginalized group is presented is different from how a non-marginalized group is presented. In the case of the former, a good number of people actually believe in the stereotypes, and these stereotypes can have negative and very real consequences. Which is why you don't want to perpetuate them further, especially in a kids show. Media is part of our culture, used to understand the world and form viewpoints.

Furthermore, people should be able to see people like them be heroes in media.

Again, this isn't intentional by the creators. But it's still worth talking about.

edited 5th Aug '16 10:22:02 AM by SilentColossus

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#38181: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:25:43 AM

Honestly, I think it's just a case of all new Gems that are introduced will most likely be antagonistic is some way, since they're most likely Homeworld Gems (or in Bismuth's case, bubbled away and hidden in a pocket dimension, which is shady as hell), and since there aren't any buff women in the main cast of Gems, any muscular Gems in the series will very likely be antagonistic (since they're new Gems that are introduced later in the series, and like I said, all new Gems have started off antagonistic). It's unfortunate, but it can't really be avoided, I don't think. Especially since, if they're from Homeworld, their body type will relegate them to the violent warrior class, what with Homeworld being as rigid as it is. (Though, actually, now that I think about it, it would be interesting to have a Quartz Gem who, if given a choice, would not want to be a warrior, but they're forced to fight anyway, because Homeworld policies. Sort of the opposite of Pearl's arc, where she learned to fight even though Pearls aren't supposed to fight.) To be fair to the Crewniverse, though, at least Bismuth had far more to her personality than "brutish thug" and is more of a Boisterous Bruiser, really. She's very morally complex, which makes her a really cool character, not completely right but not completely wrong, either.

Anyway, onto another point. This episode basically confirmed that not all Gems of the same type have the same weapons, right? You know, because Bismuth told Amethyst that not every Quartz could make a whip like Ame could. Or maybe that's just referring to the quality of weapon Amethyst had as compared to other Quartzes? What does determine the weapon each type of Gem gets?

edited 5th Aug '16 10:51:13 AM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#38182: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:53:20 AM

Well it's obvious not all Quartzes have the same weapon. Amethyst, Rose, and Jasper all have different weapons.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#38183: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:56:07 AM

True, but Bismuth's comment makes me wonder if all Gems of a subclass of Quartz have the same weapon. I'd been assuming all Amethysts had whips, all Jaspers had helmets, etc., but Bismuth's comment seems to indicate that may not be the case? Otherwise, why would she comment on Amethyst's whip?

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#38184: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:05:46 AM

Yeah, I think that there's common weapons for a gem type (such as gauntlets for Rubies), ones that aren't as common (it seems like a lot of Jaspers have axes in flashbacks, so maybe Jasper's helmet isn't super common), and rare (such as an Amethyst with a whip).

chrisalgoo Since: Sep, 2012
#38185: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:17:08 AM

smokeycut - wanted to let you know that I'm with you on this.

Steven Universe is the most progressive, most important animated show ever, and you could even remove the word "animated" from that sentence. It isn't perfect, though, and it does make mistakes and do things that aren't as accepting as it aspires to be (and is, 95% of the time.)

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#38186: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:18:31 AM

[up] ...wut.

I'm starting to wonder if kids even watch SU or of the older fans drove them off.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#38187: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:19:18 AM

Plenty of kids still watch it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#38188: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:20:16 AM

[up][up][up]...Yeah, you might be going a little too far there.

[up][up]This honestly strikes me as the type of show that has a lot of adult fans be dicks to children for not "really getting it".

[up]If they weren't it most likely wouldn't still be on. The people who run children's networks don't typically care about adult viewers' opinions.

edited 5th Aug '16 11:23:28 AM by LSBK

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#38189: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:25:24 AM

[up]x3 I'm pretty sure plenty of kids watch Steven Universe, otherwise why would Cartoon Network have ordered two more seasons of it? It's not like the Periphery Demographic really matters that much to children's programming networks.

[up] Yeah, unfortunately, that does ring pretty true to me. And it always pisses me off when adult fans do that. Kids are a lot smarter than people give them credit for, and when they get a cartoon that doesn't talk down to them, you try and claim that they can't "get it" since they're only kids? How freaking idiotic is that? I remember seeing a post that said something along the lines of "The Crewniverse should make half-hour long episodes instead of 11-minute episodes. I get that they want to keep it short for kids, but it's mostly adults who watch it anyway..." and I got pretty furious. What kind of entitlement must you have to insist that a show that's intended for kids and not for you cater to your tastes? And why are you assuming that kids don't watch it? Sorry, this stuff just makes me mad. I know I would have loved Steven Universe as a kid, and it makes me upset that people would deprive kids of this show just because they think they wouldn't "get it."

edited 5th Aug '16 11:29:19 AM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#38190: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:26:33 AM

The fact the show has four seasons means that it's getting the views the network wants so that's not really an issue.

The Blog The Art
hcobb Since: Jan, 2001
#38191: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:37:13 AM

Of course if all the beefy women in this series are evil then it would blow the reveal of Rose as the big bad.

MsAmiClassified Tired of givin' up the ghost from the fucking ocean Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Tired of givin' up the ghost
#38192: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:41:42 AM

Apparently Viewers Are Morons is only a problem when the network exhibits it.

moved to Oceanstuck because this handle was starting to bother me my tumblr
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#38193: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:42:17 AM

About Jasper and the helmet: remenber Jasper is from homeworld so clearly that is modern tech, at this point they dont use weapos like axe or anything like that.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38194: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:48:41 AM

A helmet that only allows for headbutts is much less advanced than any of the Crystal Gem's weapons.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#38195: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:51:36 AM

It's also a summoned weapon, not a "material" like Bismuth makes. Jasper was around during the first war and there's no indications that a gem can change what weapon they summon.

lycropath Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#38196: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:52:19 AM

The Jasper in the war could have had a material axe cuz it had a helmet too right?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#38197: Aug 5th 2016 at 12:00:44 PM

[up][up]And yet, that helmet look "Plastic" like modern homeworld, dosent it?

[up][up][up]maybe but it manage to poof amathys with one hit so it is strong

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#38198: Aug 5th 2016 at 12:03:58 PM

I just want Centipeedle to end up as a Chrysoprase (a type of Quartz) just so that people will shut up about it.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38199: Aug 5th 2016 at 12:08:49 PM

[up][up]It's a blunt weapon, so it still works...even for how simple it is.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#38200: Aug 5th 2016 at 12:12:19 PM

[up]It work with Jasper method o atack, using her roll out to get close to person and them deliver a good atack.

edited 5th Aug '16 12:12:37 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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