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AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#38126: Aug 5th 2016 at 12:42:21 AM

Ahaha!

Relevant Photoshop, considering all the talk about The Discourse.

[up] Ship-to-Ship Combat is a goddamn plague on all fandom.

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#38127: Aug 5th 2016 at 5:12:17 AM

It's pretty chill for the most part. Especially in comparison.

No fandom is perfect, but this one ain't all that bad. Tumblrs be tumbling.

DaftPunch hiya, the name's scout. from lesbian Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
hiya, the name's scout.
#38128: Aug 5th 2016 at 5:17:45 AM

@Malco from last page

It's Apple. It's called Ibis Paint X.

ppppppppfeiufiofuiorjfadkfbnjkdflaosigjbkghuiafjkldjnbaghkd
Austin Since: Jan, 2001
#38129: Aug 5th 2016 at 5:24:27 AM

I'll wait until monday to catch the episode. With as much Steven as we've gotten lately, I'm fine with taking a little break. 'Sides, I don't want to have to wait until Monday to share my thoughts with all you fine fellows.

hcobb Since: Jan, 2001
#38130: Aug 5th 2016 at 6:22:19 AM

The Cluster was designed to resist Rose's biggest weapon.

Buried deep in the Earth would shield it from the transmissions and its mindlessness would protect it against the "Tokyo Rose" style broadcasts.

Pity that YD underestimated Steven's powers of persuasion. It seems that Rose has created an even more ultimate weapon.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#38131: Aug 5th 2016 at 6:29:35 AM

And it's made of LO-O-O-O-OVE. And it's stronger than you.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#38132: Aug 5th 2016 at 6:34:07 AM

The SU fandom is the opposite of chill. Like...the complete opposite. It's what has kept me from going back into the show. Namely, I was midway through the first season via Hulu, and then I saw...this.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/why-am-no-longer-steven-universe-fan

You don't do that to people. You just don't.

edited 5th Aug '16 6:34:26 AM by Beatman1

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#38133: Aug 5th 2016 at 6:56:17 AM

Eh, you'll find assholes like that in any fandom, any cause, and any subculture. Instead of running away, what the sane ones must do is remain and stand up and be vocal about being sane and condemning insanity.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#38134: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:00:49 AM

That's pretty true. The larger the fandom, the more assholes there are, and asshole are friggin' loud. However, I do pretty much avoid the SU tags on Tumblr, and just reblog stuff from the people I follow, because they tend to be not assholish. (And if they become assholish, I unfollow them.)

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#38135: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:01:57 AM

Yup. This stuff happens all the time when these issues pop up, in many different fandoms. Running to a different fandom won't help, because the same thing can happen there too.

Back to Bismuth: there is some merit, then, in the observation that she appeared to go right for Lapis' gem. A good hint to that side of her before we even met her.

edited 5th Aug '16 7:04:31 AM by SilentColossus

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#38136: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:36:43 AM

Just imagine, if Lapis was eventually willing to like Peridot only after a lot of trust issues and getting over understandable motives for anger, just imagine how pissed she'd be meeting the Gem that is a pinpoint for her entire life being hell for the last five thousand years will get her grounded shard powder scattered across an entire ocean. And by that, I mean Ocean Town's going to be making a comeback.

CountofBleck Starting to believe in himself from New Wirral (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#38138: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:00:44 AM

"We will drag you to bottom of ocean to defend it." How fitting, since show confirmed that it was terrible thing to do, though it's important that Lapis realized that. Ugh, I can't check whole Internet (who can? ) so I won't say SU fandom is literally the worst, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a "normal fandom". Let's face it, SU is progressive, which means its magnet for Political Correctness Gone Tumblr crowd.

Anyway, I think I might watch "Beta" early, but only because I don't want to get spoiled by accident. You have no idea how tired I am of dodging spoilers. I once saw clip from "Mr Greg" and thought "hey, it's just cast in tuxes, I can see that." Halfway video turned to "Bismuth" clip. Some other day I saw with corner of my eye some fan animation and I freaked out thinking I got spoiled about new fusion. And then there was that time I though I saw screenshot of Lapis meeting Bismuth, but turned out it was just a well done fan-art.

But man, Bismuth was fun. I already miss her. Joking, with arms changing into weapon, making cool stuff, unstable ant-hero, she's kind like better version of Kevin Levin. And I like that rainbow aura she makes when she shapeshifts. BTW If we see more bismuths, I'll totally call them Rainbow Rocks.

I just don't get why so many gems don't get any weapons. The way show started is seemed to be teaching its audience that Gems have weapons but now no new Gem except Jasper ever has one.

My one complaint about episode is that Bismuth commenting on tv was ridiculously unsubtle. But scene had Amethyst eating, so I would never cut it.

And I know this may sound controversial, but I enjoy our beefy ladies, and I'm cool with then being "bad". Let's be honest, Jasper is designed to be intimidating. That happens all the time. When scary powerful warrior is needed no one thinks "I could make big thug, towering over hero, capable of lifting him with with one hand...or he could be just a dude." I can't imagine Jasper being smaller. And that's great because it's rare. One thing I like about Gems being all female coded is that we see characters who rarely get to be women. Describe to some one Garnet or Peridot but don't mention their gender - chances are they assume they're men. Describe Jasper to some one and they will definitely think she's a man. Beefy female villains happen but they're second or third stringers, or comic reliefs. Jasper is rare really huge, really scary, really muscled fem villain that counts. Please, people already complain that villains must be sexy, that villains must be ugly, let them be beefy.

And honestly, describe Bismuth and pretend she's a dude. Can you picture her without muscle? Would you want her to be without muscles? She's blacksmith, for crying out loud. They're always big (unless they're dwarves but you get the point.) And series is already celebrating different body types. I guess other characters could have muscles, but who? Peridot is a nerd. Amethyst is undercooked. Ruby and Sapphy are two kids in trench coat. Pearl is graceful ballerina. Lapis looks gentle and innocent. And Rose is rare fat but feminine and beautiful female Big Good. I see only Garnet, maybe-maybe Rose. Who else, Sadie?

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#38139: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:06:53 AM

I wasn't saying to make Jasper or Bismuth small and frailer looking, or to make another gem big and buff and butch. I was saying that it makes me uncomfortable and kind of sad that 2/2 big buff butch women are both villains. I want one (or both) to be redeemed, or at least to have another show up who stays good.

As it is now, the show has made the connection that big + buff + masculine = bad guy who tries to kill people. There's no butch characters to balance that out so far.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#38140: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:18:04 AM

"We will drag you to bottom of ocean to defend it." How fitting, since show confirmed that it was terrible thing to do, though it's important that Lapis realized that. Ugh, I can't check whole Internet (who can? ) so I won't say SU fandom is literally the worst, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a "normal fandom". Let's face it, SU is progressive, which means its magnet for Political Correctness Gone Tumblr crowd.

It could be considered pandering, which makes things worse because the insane Tumblr fandom now thinks they own the series and will (as the linked article states) threaten death against anyone who disagrees with their vision.

Threatening death over TV shows is a personal Berserk Button of mine. It goes way beyond any rational approach to entertainment and makes me want the show cancelled out of spite.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#38141: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:18:50 AM

[up][up]That's not a real connection really, just a coincidence at best. Do you really think they're doing that intentionally?

Physically strong characters have buff strong bodies, to show the audience that they're strong. That just kind of a thing that is. And not all the the characters that create conflict have been buff. The Diamonds are clearly not. Lapis hated everyone except Steven, and she was clearly not.

[up]I think people should try to remember that they're just a loud minority. People online form those kinds of communities because they have too much time on their hands and they overanalyze things to the point that they create a status quo. This ultimately leads to failed expectations from overthinking things, and contrived controversies, because they start seeing things that aren't really intended by the creators.

The fans have way more time on their hands to overthink things, and create unreachable expectations while they're waiting for episodes. The creators boarded this episode over a year ago, they haven't analyzed all the characters every thought and syllable like these super fans have.

edited 5th Aug '16 8:32:21 AM by xanderiskander

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#38142: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:24:14 AM

I mean... physically strong characters don't really have to be violent. Gentle Giant is a trope that exists. :/

I do love the fact that we have beefy female villains (or Anti Villains, in Bismuth's case), but it would be nice to have one heroic example of a beefy woman. Obviously I don't think this pattern is intentional by any means (or even really a pattern, there's only two examples. You need at least three to have a pattern), but I dunno. I'd really like a heroic and good muscular female character.

I guess part of the problem, though, is that the majority of Gems introduced after the main Gems will be antagonistic in some way, and since there are no beefy main characters, any muscular characters introduced will be pretty much antagonistic (at first, anyway). Lapis and Peridot were antagonistic, too (with Peri even shooting lasers at Steven and yelling "DIE DIE DIE DIE!"), but there's no issue of people with their body type being shown as strictly bad, since we already had a waifish/skinny good character in Pearl. I'm sure Bismuth will be reasoned with (if anyone can reason with her, it's Steven, she's already on better terms with Steven than she was with Rose due to the simple fact that he promised he would actually tell the Gems what happened to her, unlike Rose did), and Jasper will probably be redeemed. So this probably won't be a problem for long.

edited 5th Aug '16 8:34:17 AM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#38143: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:27:36 AM

When it comes to storytelling, every character matters. If you only have one woman appear in a story, and she's a giggling bimbo with no brain, she represents every woman in that story's world, because she's the only reference we have.

If the only black person to appear is a criminal, that sends the message that black people are criminals, because there's nothing to balance it out. If there's one black criminal, and one black cop, and one black civilian, and one black politician, you've got a much more balanced story and it won't have the implication that black people are criminals.

As it is now, not all villains in SU are butch, but both of the butch characters who have appeared are bad guys. Unless it's balanced out, it will carry that implication.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#38144: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:35:03 AM

[up][tup]

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#38145: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:38:04 AM

Bismuth is not a true villain. But whatever. Can't you just keep watching the show, and see if they add this character you want to see?

But If all you need is a new character to invalidate a precedent, than that precedent never existed in the first place. You've just been judging all the characters you've never seen, based on you stereotyping the first character. Again, Unfortunate Implications is always unintentional. It's an audience reaction.

edited 5th Aug '16 8:41:45 AM by xanderiskander

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#38146: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:40:03 AM

I get the issue people have with it - musclar, butch women are treated as villains all the time, and we don't want a show (especially a kids show) pushing that stereotype further. At the same time I'm completely convinced Jasper will be redeemed, and that Bismuth will eventually be freed and be more understanding towards Steven and Rose. And every Gem that wasn't introduced at the start was initially a villain.

The show is sympathetic to Bismuth. She is an antagonist, but we're supposed to understand her; Rose bubbling and hiding her away is supposed to be sad, not cathartic and triumphant.

But I totally get why they having all the butch women be violent and villainous will be a problem. I just don't think they're going to stay violent and villainous.

edited 5th Aug '16 8:40:47 AM by SilentColossus

BlueBlaze64 The Watcher on the Tower from Empire City Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Watcher on the Tower
#38147: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:41:43 AM

Also, maybe Sugilite could be the third example of the "trend". It was Amethyst's insecurity about her own strength met with Garnet's power, and it was this huge, buff monster that nearly killed Pearl because it was power-tripping.

"The cruelest thing you can do to an artist is tell them their work is flawless when it isn't." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw
hcobb Since: Jan, 2001
#38148: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:42:34 AM

Peridot had her weapon attachments thrown away (not that she was a combat droid).

The rubies are a weapon. If the target doesn't break then just add more rubies. If that doesn't work then they'll kill it with fire.

Lapis was on a recon mission. (I can see BD asking what covered 70% of the planet and just sending a matching gem.)

The lack of personal names is due to any two gems of the same type being interchangeable so you can just address the closest one by type. If a gem behaves oddly for her type then you want to know the point of manufacture and serial number so you can dispose of the entire batch.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#38149: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:43:22 AM

[up][up]Oh, that's true. I forgot about Sugilite. (Speaking of which, if Amethyst and Garnet fused again to make Sugilite now, do you think she would be as aggressive and violent as before, since Amethyst has started to get over some of her insecurities?)

edited 5th Aug '16 8:43:40 AM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#38150: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:45:10 AM

Yeah, I don't think this will be permanent, and I'm really pulling for redemptions for them both, but it's just frustrating to see it as it is now. It's not to say that the show is bad, I'm just very critical of things I like.


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