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TruthHurts22 You can't handle the me Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
You can't handle the me
#38051: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:03:12 PM

Y'know, now I wanted a Bismuth version of "I'll Make a Man Out of You".

Let's get down to Bis-muth!
To defeat
Those gems!

Ninjaxenomorph The best and the worst. from Texas, Texas, Texas Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
The best and the worst.
#38052: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:03:36 PM

I don't see how the Breaking Point would have really... changed anything, unless just by hitting a gem's body it can shatter the gem. Otherwise, it's an inversion of the standard for human weapons: lethal is quick and easy, nonlethal is complex and complicated. Taking a gem out non-lethally is literally as easy as stabbing a person. That can be difficult, but with the Breaking Point, you have to punch a specific part of someone's body. That's tough in a real fight. I could bring up the other issues, like how it has basically no reach, but honestly that could easily be fixed when rolled out on a massive scale.

I really hope Bismuth was intending to mass-produce those. Otherwise, it's... kinda useless. And while I thought the episode was really good, I would have liked if somebody (that's not Steven) had brought up the fact that escalating a war rarely goes well.

Me and my friend's collaborative webcomic: Forged Men
DaftPunch hiya, the name's scout. from lesbian Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
hiya, the name's scout.
#38053: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:04:00 PM

I could try to access it

I probably can.

ppppppppfeiufiofuiorjfadkfbnjkdflaosigjbkghuiafjkldjnbaghkd
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38054: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:06:19 PM

[up][up]I'm pretty sure she was planning to mass product, but she seemed like the only CG Bismuth and that would make it hard.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ninjaxenomorph The best and the worst. from Texas, Texas, Texas Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
The best and the worst.
#38055: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:06:26 PM

wild mass guessThe real reason Rose bubbled Bismuth...

"Bismuth, I'm sorry. But I really hate your puns."wild mass guess

Me and my friend's collaborative webcomic: Forged Men
thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#38056: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:11:07 PM

Getting back to the Jet comparison/contrast, I'd say the biggest difference is that Bismuth developed a much more personal connection to the main characters, even the ones she just met.

Didn't she say she say something like she was going to liberate the smallfolk from diamond tyranny?
The relevant lines are "We'd be shattering for the sake of our cause. To protect our allies, our friends. To free all gems from Homeworld's tyrrany." and "I would have liberated everyone!"

(I'll talk about this more later, it's getting late and I've barely covered half of this post.)

Speaking of rewatching, while looking over some scenes, I noticed for every red flag I saw immediately, there are three I missed.

"Homeworld couldn't lay a scratch on this gem!"

Also, I really have to applaud Aduba for the last third of episode, she is acting the shit out of those lines.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#38057: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:12:46 PM

@ninjaxenomorph: I wouldn't try to analyze their tactics in realistic terms, otherwise it just becomes "why use swords when they have lasers"?

I really hope Bismuth was intending to mass-produce those.
She introduced it as "a Breaking Point".

edited 4th Aug '16 9:14:51 PM by thatother1dude

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#38058: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:17:15 PM

Dang, I didn't expect this episode to generate as much Discourse (TM) as it did! O_O I mean, it's not a new message, Avatar: The Last Airbender had an episode with a very similar message against being as extreme as Bismuth. I don't get why people are freaking out.

I think it's a combination of how large and vocal this series' periphery demographic is (Avatar had one too, but it really exploded in the second series), how little time we have to actually set up the dilemma in the episode (whereas Avatar spend quite a while setting up Aang as the kind of person who wouldn't accept taking a life if he can help it, even in crisis), and how the situation with Homeworld is far more layered than the situation with the Fire Nation.

Plus, we know very little about Rose, Steven knows very little about the war, nobody actually explains to Bismuth how while Homeworld is still threatening them they're not in all our war anywhere and the situation is different, and Bismuth never gets the chance to actually do anything morally questionable before the argument actually happens, let alone with the Breaking Point (now, say, if she had met Lapis or Peridot and refused to accept them or tried to shatter them on sight).

That said, ATLA did have some backlash from idealism winning out, it just wasn't as vocal and widespread. I'm on Steven's side of his and Bismuth's argument, more or less (more accurately I think Bismuth's jumped off the slippery slope), but I'm not surprised it's getting a lot of discourse. It's complicated.

edited 4th Aug '16 9:17:50 PM by KnownUnknown

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38059: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:18:26 PM

[up][up]She didn't exactly have time to build more...she was poofed after showing it to Rosey.

edited 4th Aug '16 9:21:56 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
hcobb Since: Jan, 2001
#38060: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:18:58 PM

Rose was winning with a hearts and mind campaign until the other side got spooked into:

"Nuke it from space, it's the only way to be sure."

Adding terror weapons would not have helped her cause.

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#38061: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:25:05 PM

(hugs Daft)

That's terrible. You have support and some nicer people to listen if you need to vent if necessary. I am, at any rate.

That's the kind of stuff this show's trying to break.

Rebecca Sugar: In large part it’s based on my experience as a bisexual woman. I think that there are a lot of ways that I — how to I put this?

These themes have so much to do with who you are. There is an idea that these are themes that should not be shared with kids but everyone shares stories about love and attraction with kids. So many stories for kids are about love. 

It really makes a difference to hear stories about how someone like you can be loved. And if you don’t hear those stories, it will change who you are. 

It’s very important to me that we speak to kids about consent. That we speak to kids about identity. There’s so much I have to say about this... 

I...want to feel like I exist, and I want everyone else who wants to feel that way to feel that way too.

BlueBlaze64 The Watcher on the Tower from Empire City Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Watcher on the Tower
#38062: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:25:45 PM

@Daft Punch Wow. That sounds terrible that you're being forbidden from watching the show. It's one thing to disagree with a show's message and not want to watch it. But to forbid you from watching it, and taking away a device from you just because of who you are, that's just plain cruel.

I hope you can get to watch and enjoy the show. It has really positive messages that your parents just wouldn't understand.

edited 4th Aug '16 9:26:39 PM by BlueBlaze64

"The cruelest thing you can do to an artist is tell them their work is flawless when it isn't." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38063: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:29:20 PM

[up][up]Is...that a quote, or just the part with the name next to it?

edited 4th Aug '16 9:31:38 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
SalFishFin Since: Jan, 2001
#38064: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:29:55 PM

Okay so I skipped about 10 pages of discussion, but I would like to point t out that the Breaking Point would likely not have been as much of a game-changer as Bismuth implied.

I mean... it had legit 7 seconds of windup before she could attack with it. That means you tag one or two gems before somebody poofy you, and now they have your ultraweapon, and more manpower, and the capacity to replicate it.

thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#38065: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:29:57 PM

[up][up]Yes.

edited 4th Aug '16 9:33:24 PM by thatother1dude

TheFox Quick like... Since: Jan, 2013
Quick like...
#38066: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:42:47 PM

[up][up]I was thinking something pretty similar. After Bismuth unveiled the Breaking Point, all I could think about was how impractical it was.

Sure, it was a one-shot kill, but it had a huge windup time, a small point of impact on an awkwardly-shaped weapon that's trickier to aim than a more typical weapon such as a sword or an axe, and the fact that it's meant to aim for a small, specific point on the opposing gem's body, making it even more difficult to use. With all of those negatives, the Breaking Point would only really be effective against an opponent that is prone or otherwise unable to avoid the atack.

It honestly seems more like an execution tool than a weapon, which makes it even more disturbing of a creation.

edited 4th Aug '16 9:43:22 PM by TheFox

DaftPunch hiya, the name's scout. from lesbian Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
hiya, the name's scout.
#38067: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:43:57 PM

[up]x5 and x6

You guys have no idea how much that means to me. I was pretty put down after I came out as pansexual. Nobody likes me now except my aunt who has all these LGBT+ friends.

Hell... I almost got put through conversion therapy.

edited 4th Aug '16 9:44:14 PM by DaftPunch

ppppppppfeiufiofuiorjfadkfbnjkdflaosigjbkghuiafjkldjnbaghkd
thatother1dude from Land of the Ill, Annoyin' Since: Jan, 2001
#38068: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:44:03 PM

[up][up]The Pile Bunker is an absurd weapon, but that doesn't keep it from being crazy effective in fiction.

edited 4th Aug '16 9:45:01 PM by thatother1dude

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#38069: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:44:12 PM

It being so impractical could be to show how unstable she was becoming, though we can't say for sure.

edited 4th Aug '16 9:44:30 PM by LSBK

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38070: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:47:02 PM

Think of how hard it would be to hit a Gem like Jaspee's...such a small target, it'd probably end up poofing them by going through the face.

It was an Awesome weapon...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#38071: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:51:52 PM

@Daft. The important thing is that you didn't and you've managed to affirm your identity, even if it's hard and unfair. That speaks to your integrity more than it does your family's prejudices.[awesome]

It seemed to be more a proof of concept, and could've been refined with further um, testing. The principle of the thing is what really matters.

DaftPunch hiya, the name's scout. from lesbian Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
hiya, the name's scout.
#38072: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:53:55 PM

Man, now I really wanna be friends with Rebecca Sugar...

ppppppppfeiufiofuiorjfadkfbnjkdflaosigjbkghuiafjkldjnbaghkd
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38073: Aug 4th 2016 at 9:56:06 PM

Testing: Next she could've used moving targets.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#38074: Aug 4th 2016 at 10:07:08 PM

Ugh. Lauren Zuke had to send a series of tweets telling people to stop sending hate messages over people liking Jasper. God, I'm really disappointed in this fandom lately.

BlueBlaze64 The Watcher on the Tower from Empire City Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Watcher on the Tower
#38075: Aug 4th 2016 at 10:08:36 PM

[up] ''lately''?

"The cruelest thing you can do to an artist is tell them their work is flawless when it isn't." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

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