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GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#37901: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:53:09 PM

And sympathy doesn't change the fact that both butch women on the show are shown to be violent extremists who like murder.

You can make anything sound Unfortunate Implications without context.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37902: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:54:06 PM

She hated the idea of having to fight Rose...twice, so it's probably impacting hard.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#37903: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:54:11 PM

I'm saying that every time we see a large butch woman on this show, they're shown to have zero problem with committing murder, and are incredibly violent.

Jasper flat out says her purpose in life is to fight. Bismuth keeps pushing Steven to fight, and keeps going on and on about murdering the diamonds and homeworld's forces. That reeks of Unfortunate Implications, especially with how masculine women are often portrayed in media.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37904: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:55:41 PM

Stephen has no problem fighting. You're making a bigger deal out of this than necessary.

Coincidences.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:56:12 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#37905: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:55:43 PM

So you're just excluding Amethyst and Garnet, because of body type? That seems pretty superficial.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:56:02 PM by xanderiskander

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#37906: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:56:17 PM

Amethyst and Garnet are pretty butch.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#37907: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:56:25 PM

[up]X4 But these situations have very clearly defined reasons for why they're happening the way they are, and are in no way supposed to be some "Look, see how evil all masculine women are!" bait.

I understand why people are on the look out for stuff like this, but if your only paying attention to surface stuff, your not really doing any cause a favor, I think. Man, I hope this doesn't sound condescending, but it probably does.

Edit: I can't help looking at this complaint the same way as the "Steven is a boy so this show isn't really feminist" complaint.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:58:05 PM by LSBK

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#37908: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:57:45 PM

I was wondering near the end if Jasper was going to make a surprise rescue, and maybe take the Shatter Point herself. I like Jasper, but that would have ruined the episode for sure.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#37909: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:58:06 PM

Smokey, I mean you no disrespect, but you're wrong about this.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
diyedas Since: Feb, 2010
#37910: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:58:11 PM

And wouldn't calling them butch be stereotyping?

edited 4th Aug '16 5:58:28 PM by diyedas

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#37911: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:58:34 PM

Yeah out of the main Gems Pearl and Lapis are the only one who approach conventionally feminine, and even then Pearl could be argued to be a bit butch in a Rachel Maddow way. I'd personally group Garnet under butch.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#37912: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:59:55 PM

1) Amethyst and Garnet are not anywhere close to as butch as Jasper and Bismuth. Saying they are is ridiculous. They do not look the same, and both are much gentler and "softer" than Bismuth and Jasper.

2) "When someone says they're offended, don't tell them they aren't". I'm disappointed in this show for how it's trend of how it depicts large, masculine women. I expect better from a show with love and acceptance as it's central message.

BlueBlaze64 The Watcher on the Tower from Empire City Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Watcher on the Tower
#37913: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:00:41 PM

Well, that's the problem with having every single person that fights be female. The variety is going to make the tougher ones seem more "butch", when really they're just trying to be more diverse in body type.

edited 4th Aug '16 6:01:45 PM by BlueBlaze64

"The cruelest thing you can do to an artist is tell them their work is flawless when it isn't." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#37914: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:01:08 PM

Two characters, with very solid reasons for why they act the way they act, is not a trend.

edited 4th Aug '16 6:01:35 PM by LSBK

Ruise Nyanpasu~ from your subconscious Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Nyanpasu~
#37915: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:01:18 PM

Amethyst and Garnet are pretty butch.

No they aren't. Garnet's arms are like twigs. Amethyst is a pipsqueak. Jasper is the hottest animated character ever...animated.

Loves feel-good animation a whole lot.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Ruise Nyanpasu~ from your subconscious Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Nyanpasu~
#37917: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:02:24 PM

ALWAYS RUISE.

Loves feel-good animation a whole lot.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#37918: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:02:51 PM

Smokey, aren't you the one pulling for a Jasper redemption arc? I'm pulling for one too, but I still think saying the show's treatment of masculine female characters as having Unfortunate Implications is going a bit too far.

Hell, Pearl clearly had no problem with murder when she outright tried to stab Peridot in the Gem in Friend Ship.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TheFox Quick like... Since: Jan, 2013
Quick like...
#37919: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:03:12 PM

Personally, I never got the feeling that Bismuth was really a bad person. I got the idea that she was genuinely well-meaning, but hit the Cynicism Catalyst hard after being thrown into the chaos of war and seeing how brutal the Diamonds were willing to be.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#37920: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:03:31 PM

Ruise is right though. Garnet is curvy and motherly and calm. Amethyst is playful and relaxed and small.

Bismuth and Jasper are big, burly, and masculine. They're also the two gems who have no issue with murder, and think it's a smart idea.

I want them to get redeemed because I want a series where butch women are actually shown to be good people.

edited 4th Aug '16 6:04:16 PM by smokeycut

Austin Since: Jan, 2001
#37921: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:04:18 PM

Man, that whole deal with the Shatterpoint and Rose bubbling one of her allies was certainly some dirty Bismuth, wasn't it?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#37922: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:04:22 PM

And what's to say they won't end up changing from that?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#37923: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:04:27 PM

Jasper and Bismuth have reasons for acting the way they do, that's true, but since there aren't really any really muscular women who are more gentle people, it does seem like it's indulging in stereotypes.

I think I'm with Smokey - this is something of a problem, and I hope that it can be addressed in the future.

Oh God! Natural light!
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37924: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:05:20 PM

[up][up][up][up]To be fair, Yellow Diamond probably also has no issues with murder. And Yellow Pearl may not either.

edited 4th Aug '16 6:05:46 PM by PhiSat

Oissu!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#37925: Aug 4th 2016 at 6:05:21 PM

Garnet and Amethyst might not be "butch" but their not conventionally feminine, either, at least outwardly.

I still think Smokey is simplifying this issue way more than it should be, but should we really be ganging up on one person like this? We've all made our point clear on the subject, haven't we?


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