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PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37851: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:24:29 PM

[up]x5 This is why I wish we could have seen some of how the others reacted to the whole story, rather than just having a time skip.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:24:53 PM by PhiSat

Oissu!
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#37853: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:25:42 PM

As Bismuth herself said, Rose lies.
Yeah, but we know this show doesn't think all lying is malicious. Steven learned that lesson from Mayor Dewey.

[up]Brings up some pretty good points, I hadn't considered.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:28:51 PM by xanderiskander

Austin Since: Jan, 2001
#37854: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:26:07 PM

I think at the core Bismuth and Rose were fighting a different war. Rose wanted to save the Earth, Bismuth wanted to overthrow the Diamonds and the entirety of Gem society.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

I've never believed Rose was evil, but I've always been a big fan of her becoming more morally ambiguous. It wouldn't do for a show partially about celebrating flaws to have a character who was perfect, now would it?

diyedas Since: Feb, 2010
#37855: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:27:05 PM

It's always kinda funny when a kids show that normally teaches kids morals does the opposite in an episode, like Avatar did in The Divide and The Waterbending Scroll.

[up]Kinda like what Harry Potter did with Dumbledore.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:27:51 PM by diyedas

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#37856: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:27:32 PM

All the talk of Rose being perfect came from people who obviously viewed her through, ahem, rose-tinted glasses. I was never worried about it actually being true. And we've been shown enough to know it's not, through layers.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#37857: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:27:57 PM

Huh I wonder how Lapis would have felt seeing Bismuth? Prolly pissed off. tongue

Also can someone show Lapis' flashback scene? I wanna see if Bismuth really did poof her.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37858: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:29:06 PM

[up]x6 Interesting, but if this was Rose's reasoning for doing what she did she's kind of hypocritical. She encourages choice and yet doesn't allow other gems to choose whether to support her ideals or Bismuth's, she decides to crush the dissent.

Which is not necessarily bad, but it is hypocritical when your side is supposed to be about making your own decisions.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:29:45 PM by PhiSat

Oissu!
Austin Since: Jan, 2001
#37859: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:29:29 PM

At the moment I'm assuming that Rose lying about Bismuth wasn't because it was conveniant for her, but because it was such a horrible turn of events that she had no idea how the others would take it, or even how to confess to them about it.

Still not sure about the other stuff she was apparently keeping secret.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#37860: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:30:18 PM

I still feel like Rose shouldn't have completely dismissed the idea of Shatter Point, though. True, the CGs shouldn't use it against all the invading Homeworld armies (like was mentioned before, they could easily be converted to their cause, it's not their fault Homeworld was structured the way it was), but, if the opportunity ever arose, it could be used against the Diamonds.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:31:20 PM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37861: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:30:41 PM

[up]That's how it should have been used, for assassinations.

Oissu!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37862: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:31:40 PM

If the war ever got to Home World, it could've been used for that.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#37863: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:32:38 PM

Discussing it with the others definitely should have happened. Still, I get the impression Bismuth attacked Rose first.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#37864: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:33:20 PM

I don't think the Breaking Point should have been used at all. Not only did it go against the entire crux of Rose's philosophy behind the war, it also would have taken away the Crystal Gem's moral high ground on the war. Once they start to straight-up murder other Gems, it would become easier for Homeworld to vilify the Crystal Gems as a treasonous gang of monsters that needed to be destroyed and that Earth made for bad Gem Growing to create such monsters, and they would have destroyed the planet.

My various fanfics.
dmysta3000 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#37865: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:33:35 PM

Also you gotta keep in mind that Bismuth made Breaking Point at a time where Homeworld wasnt more technologically advanced from them.

GUNDAMU GUNDAMU
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37866: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:33:49 PM

[up][up][up]They're probably both at fault. Bismuth seems to be a wee bit temperamental and Rose seemed to completely disregard the fact that killing gems might have been necessary at some point.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:34:23 PM by PhiSat

Oissu!
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#37867: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:34:41 PM

I'm sure Bismuth did attack first, but probably only after Rose told her definitively no, that using such a weapon was horrifying. From what it sounded like, I think Rose just flat out refused.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#37868: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:35:32 PM

She encourages choice and yet doesn't allow other gems to choose whether to support her ideals or Bismuth's, she decides to crush the dissent.
It seems implied the argument escalated into a fight echoing what happened with Steven this episode. So it was more of a heat of the moment thing. Rose didn't really decide to crush Bismuth, it just kind of happened as a result of Bismuth's freak out, and after that she didn't have the courage to talk about it.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:36:36 PM by xanderiskander

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37869: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:35:38 PM

[up]x5 I don't get the impression the Diamonds need to justify their decisions to anyone.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:35:55 PM by PhiSat

Oissu!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#37870: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:35:44 PM

Also!

I think we know the most important thing about this episode.

Pearl is a size queen.

My various fanfics.
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37871: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:37:08 PM

I really liked how easily Pearl and Garnet got along with Bismuth. It was heartwarming stuff.

Oissu!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37872: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:37:42 PM

Easily...it should've been even easier.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
diyedas Since: Feb, 2010
#37873: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:39:05 PM

[up][up]I also like that she got Amethyst to like her just because she gave her a new weapon.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#37874: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:39:19 PM

Honestly I expected Bismuth to turn out as a radical. I guessed it before the leaks even happened, so I was ready for that much. But with how well Bismuth got along with the other characters, and her pep talk with Steven, it kind of hit me hard in the end anyway. Probably another reason for that is I don't really know what the best answer was, so I kind of empathized with both sides.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:40:48 PM by xanderiskander

diyedas Since: Feb, 2010
#37875: Aug 4th 2016 at 5:41:05 PM

[up]That was definitely one of my theories cuz I figured she'd only be in this one episode. So I wasn't overly surprised she turned extreme either. And honestly it was pretty evident there was something off about Bismuth throughout the whole episode.

edited 4th Aug '16 5:41:27 PM by diyedas


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