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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#37776: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:38:52 PM

Ya know, something about people complaining at how Steven not asking questions that annoys me: the Gems don't even know what Lion is, so why would Steven ask them?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#37777: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:39:12 PM

I'm assuming poofed enemy Gems were immediately bubbled & imprisoned.

Whether or not they were executed is prolly something done by the higher ups of the Rebellion in secret so as to maintain the cloak of heroism they possessed.

edited 4th Aug '16 4:39:25 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37778: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:39:19 PM

[up][up]See, exactly. I'm wondering just how far the show is going to go with presenting idealism as the right choice. I'm wondering if that idealism isn't going to get someone killed because they refuse to kill a Gem, like the Diamonds maybe, who will kill them if they don't.

EDIT: And bubbling someone for thousands of years is a Fate Worse than Death, as Bismuth clearly indicated... So I don't think Rose's Thou Shall Not Kill morals are really so great.

edited 4th Aug '16 4:40:16 PM by PhiSat

Oissu!
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#37779: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:39:37 PM

later dialogue indicates that she doesn't actually know exactly what happened before she got poofed.

What dialogue?

edited 4th Aug '16 4:40:13 PM by xanderiskander

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#37780: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:40:00 PM

Pretty sure that Rose was of the same mind as Steven: it doesn't matter what they do no Gem deserves to be shattered. Not even the Diamonds.

[up][up]No it isn't. It's not like they're conscious of it, Bismuth had no idea how much time had passed.

edited 4th Aug '16 4:41:29 PM by LSBK

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#37781: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:40:27 PM

I think it's less that no Homeworld Gem ever got shattered in the war as much as people did die, but only uncommonly in the course of the fight - Rose wasn't willing to use a tactic or weapon that could do nothing else but kill and kill some more.

In a world where death is a rare and terrible thing, a weapon that can only kill is like a nuke.

edited 4th Aug '16 4:42:04 PM by KnownUnknown

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37782: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:41:12 PM

Maybe I'm just not a fan of purely idealistic stories, but I hope that idealism is eventually presented as a flaw. I don't think the Diamonds will be redeemable and I'll be very disappointed if they are redeemed in the end.

Oissu!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37783: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:41:49 PM

[up][up][up][up]When Bismuth said "...but you knew what happened to me, didn't you?"

edited 4th Aug '16 4:42:06 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#37784: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:41:56 PM

Ya know, something about people complaining at how Steven not asking questions that annoys me: the Gems don't even know what Lion is, so why would Steven ask them?
Pretty sure asking them about the corrupted gems, the war, and the Diamonds are entirely different things from them not knowing what Lion is.

[up]Pretty sure she's talking about how Rose knew, and didn't let anyone else know.

edited 4th Aug '16 4:43:52 PM by xanderiskander

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#37785: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:42:23 PM

[up][up][up]I agree with the general sentiment. Though I disagree that Rose was wrong about this, being willing to kill is different than only trying to kill.

edited 4th Aug '16 4:43:00 PM by LSBK

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#37786: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:42:33 PM

I highly doubt the Diamonds will be redeemed. They'll probably end up doing something where they self terminate rather than surrender or something.

[up][up]

I'm going off of that one video that mentions that as a question Steven should've asked the Gems.

edited 4th Aug '16 4:43:12 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#37787: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:42:44 PM

Rose could have used the Breaking Point as a deterrent.

Like "Whoo check this out bitches! I can shatter you all with a single move so back the fuck off!" or something like that.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37788: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:43:01 PM

Bismuth being hidden in Lion's mane raises some Fridge Logic as to how they don't know anything about Lion. Hope that's explained a little better eventually.

[up][up]EDIT: I don't like those endings either, they always feel like a cop-out.

edited 4th Aug '16 4:43:32 PM by PhiSat

Oissu!
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#37789: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:45:07 PM

[up][up][up]That video is entirely a joke though. I think he was just posing random questions. He calls Yellow Diamond a space giraffe in the same sentence. And asking why Amethyst "is a terrible person" isn't a serious question Steven would ask either.

edited 4th Aug '16 4:47:47 PM by xanderiskander

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#37790: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:45:58 PM

While watching earlier, my thought was it's a pragmatic decision as much as a moral one.

Think about it, if they mass-produced these things and Homeworld Bismuths got their hands on it, they'd reverse engineer them quickly and they'd have been decimated. Nuclear taboo, yo.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37791: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:46:02 PM

They don't know about Lion because he was never around Rosey...that's pretty simple. Considering where they found him, he was probably always roaming.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#37792: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:47:26 PM

[up][up]Unfortunately, considering what happened to the gems on Earth... I don't think it would have made a difference in the end.

Oissu!
Cailleach Studious Girl from Purgatory Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
Studious Girl
#37793: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:48:42 PM

I just can't see Rose as the moral victor here. So she refused to use a weapon that shattered Homeworld gems, but that weapon could have prevented gems on her side from being shattered. So that would still make her responsible for gem deaths, and these deaths are gems on her side

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#37794: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:49:26 PM

About the bad-guy self-terminating cause the good-guy didn't have the guts to kill them or out of moral reasons, I for some reason think of Kill la Kill since that's pretty much how the bad-guys lost really.

And yeah it wasn't exactly fulfilling.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#37795: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:49:49 PM

Unfortunately, considering what happened to the gems on Earth... I don't think it would have made a difference in the end.
Then if it would have ended the same way anyway she made the right decision then?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#37796: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:49:58 PM

[up][up][up]You could say the same thing about using any weapon. The logic really doesn't hold up. Bismuth was saying the same thing and she was clearly not in a good place.

Like, since people keep bringing up nukes, if the US didn't use them against Japan, would that have made any deaths on the American side Truman's fault?

edited 4th Aug '16 4:51:00 PM by LSBK

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#37797: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:50:38 PM

But Lion existed during the Gem War... what does that mean?

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#37798: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:50:45 PM

No, but in that time and place, it would've made logical sense.

To give Rose a little benefit of the doubt here, bubbling is still a much kinder fate than shattering. It's terrible, but if she were to say that Bismuth was broken during a battle, it still would've been better than the alternative. Inside a bubble, time doesn't pass for them.

It was either that or a fight to the death. Bismuth refused to compromise. While it would've been better for her to have told her friends, I don't see what else could've been done to stop her.

deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#37799: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:51:12 PM

Okay so...am I the only one who thinks that this episode is a prime example of why this show DESPERATELY needs to change their 11-minute episodes to 22-minute episodes?

Seriously, one of the main reasons why two-parters like Mirror Gem/Ocean Gem, The Return/Jailbreak, Superwatermelon Island/Gem Drill, etc are so beloved is because they feel much more complete in comparison to many of the episodes in the series .

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37800: Aug 4th 2016 at 4:53:23 PM

Yeah, you probably are...

[up][up][up]Lion is an immortal, gifted powers.

edited 4th Aug '16 4:54:01 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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