It's not about Marty having a Freudian Excuse or something to make his behavior more understandable, it's just that assholes are people too. They have likes and dislikes, people they care about (sometimes), hopes and dreams, etc.
Marty is just very one-note in that regard, and very predictable, which doesn't necessarily make for a super engaging character. It feels like they weren't interested in creating a more complex character, and it's disappointing to see that.
edited 18th Jul '16 9:45:48 PM by wehrmacht
Speaking of "too predictable", I think Marty actually turning out to be broke was even worse. I was genuinely surprised that he did well for himself, but then it turns out he's just a shill who's probably in debt. Logically, he should have earned at least $30e6 because he got 75% of the profits from Greg's music, but I guess he already pissed that all away.
Double subverting my expectation is almost worse than following them immediately, because that means everything between those two points feels worthless.
edited 18th Jul '16 9:48:58 PM by thatother1dude
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Not all the characters need to be and/or can be deep.
Try to count all the characters in the series, count the episodes, see how the plot advances.
Sadly, not all the characters can have deep characterization.
Red Shirts cannot be very deep in characterization because they usually die very early in the battle for example, doing that just would create a wasted character.
(And to be fair, the fact that the characters from Game Of Thrones can die easily is the reason because that series doesn't really appeals me.)
If Marty gets more characterization in the future, well, more lo-o-o-o-ve for you, it could be a good thing probably, is just, as far as I see in his character, I doubt he's gonna receive more screentime.
edited 18th Jul '16 9:51:17 PM by ClownToy
Nobody said that, but characters in SU, yes even the ones in the supporting cast, usually have some sort of complexity or something to them that makes them interesting in some way. Even Ronaldo, who a lot of people don't like and find obnoxious, is a better character than Marty IMHO because he's more rounded.
What is being said is that they had a good chance to create a cool story with Marty and subverting people's expectations of him, but they decided not to do that and go with a much more predictable storyline. It's not the end of the world or anything, but I would have hoped that in a series with writing consistently as good as SU they would have avoided that.
I don't disagree with that either, I'm not expecting him to come back since as I said, he seems to be a character created for a purpose, and that purpose has been fulfilled.
edited 18th Jul '16 9:54:17 PM by wehrmacht
Talking about that, well, I would like that aside from the Diamonds (as far as we could see) and Jasper (arguably, thought we still have yet to see more about she), I would like the series to have more conventionally "evil" characters.
Peridot was a dork, Lapis was a homesick and the rubies were stupid. I would like more villains.
Sure, most gems of homeworld may not be really evil (I like the fact that the conflict is not really one sided), but it may be actually evil gems. Also, I'm OK if they have a deep character and all, but my point is: I would like to see gems who are actually evil, with or without Freudian Excuse.
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That wouldn't make it funnier since the drink is a mixture.
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Well, that's true.
I doubt at this point that my expectations can be fulfilled (the gems seems have been raised to be devoted to the Diamonds as hell), but I would like if there's some "Starscream" gem inside of YD's army, or in Homeworld in general.
edited 18th Jul '16 10:03:16 PM by ClownToy
I've always been a litle confused about why every treats Marty like he was the freaking devil, nexus of all that is horrible in his first appearance.
He's ultimately just an uncaring jerk, representing what Greg could have become if he put his dreams over the heart that inspired those dreams in the first place.
He's basically filling the same niche here, with SC dreams. It does seem like he cares about Sour Cream's success, just nowhere near as much as he cares about his own, just like how in the first episode it felt like he did legitimately believe in Greg's dreams (as long as they coincided with his own).
edited 18th Jul '16 10:09:15 PM by KnownUnknown
I don't see Marty as the devil. In fact, I don't mind Marty at all.
(In fact most of the time, aside from Steven, Connie and Greg I don't mind the human characters very much.)
However, that's the curse of scrappies and hate sinkers.
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It's probably more of an "in comparison" thing.
Pretty much every single other character (besides Yellow Diamond, and the jury is still out on that atm) has shown to have some sort of redeeming quality or humanizing trait. In his first appearance Marty doesn't have anything like that, even his design reeks of skeeviness. He's not the devil or anything but out of the entire cast he is the worst person so far.
I've never felt he was more than a run-of-the-mill nasty douche myself.
edited 18th Jul '16 10:08:22 PM by wehrmacht
I honestly do find Marty's awfulness fascinating, but I question the point of him coming back for this episode (with arguably even more screentime) when he's doing essentially the same thing he did in "Story for Steven" and getting the same result.
I don't specifically want Marty to show a nicer side or even more depth, just do something more interesting than "exploit the gullible with short-sighted manipulations that they inevitably see through and cause them to abandon him".
edited 18th Jul '16 10:09:31 PM by thatother1dude
I mean, it's the reason the "he's not really so terrible, it's just Greg's perspective" has always bugged me, because he's not even really bad enough even to merit that kind of fan-theory laden defense in the first place.
He's not over-the-top nasty or even particularly antagonistic (though he is definitely a character type), just a dick that plays a small but pivotal role in the story.
edited 18th Jul '16 10:10:26 PM by KnownUnknown
He may not be the devil or anything, but he doesn't really show any kind of redeeming qualities or any kind of warmth or kindness in his first appearance. I don't get the impression he cared about Greg at all, or anyone besides himself.
It's something wholly unique in a show that normally has a very idealistic view of humanity and sentient life, so I don't see that line of reasoning as a defense so much as speculation based on what the show is generally like, and a desire to see him be more rounded.
edited 18th Jul '16 10:13:51 PM by wehrmacht
Plus, most conventional villains usually have tropes like Evil Is Cool, Jerkass Woobie, Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, Magnificent Bastard, Evil Is Sexy, Alas, Poor Villain, etc.
Hate Sink characters, even if they do less damage, if they lack of the aforement qualities, they are usually hated while the villains become Love to Hate (Sometimes a bit too much.)
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He doesn't need to. The main issue with people wanting Marty to have layers to him is that I feel like people think he had a bigger role in the episode than he actually did, or are exaggerating his overall impact. He's mainly just there to be the person Greg says no to when he chooses Rose over his dream.
It'd be like if the only thing we ever saw of Mr. Smiley is that one episode where his one role was banning Steven from the amusement park. Smiley's a recurrer. Until today, Marty wasn't (and even so, I doubt we'll ever see him again after this).
In this episode we do see more to him, and he does come off as having layers, just not ones that make him less of a dick. Much like with Greg, we see him legitimately believing in other people's dreams when they coincide with his own, and writing them off when they don't - though he'll still give them what they're due if he has to (so he's not a cheat).
He's a character who, when he does right, does so for the wrong reasons.
edited 18th Jul '16 10:16:46 PM by KnownUnknown
It's not people giving him undue importance or anything, just seeing a missed opportunity to make him more interesting as a character since this episode's plot was pretty predictable.
It's not a big deal though.
I don't really see that as him having any more layers, just him being manipulative and using people which is something we already knew about him from the little we saw of him in greg's flashback.
edited 18th Jul '16 10:36:28 PM by wehrmacht
Like I said, my problem wasn't as much with Marty as a character as his role being almost identical in both episodes.
edited 18th Jul '16 10:20:37 PM by thatother1dude
Rewatching the episode, it seems like there was an intent, for it to be a set up as "maybe Marty's really just trying to change, and have a father-son bonding experience over music" then subvert it with Sour Cream telling off Marty for pushing crappy soda later. It just didn't really work, because the set up happened in the first couple of minutes, and they made him seem arrogant, from the start, so since they made him look like a jerk from the get-go it didn't actually subvert anything.
Kind of a sloppy episode IMO.
edited 18th Jul '16 10:26:51 PM by xanderiskander

He seems more of a plot device to cause reactions in other characters.
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