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Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#31651: May 18th 2016 at 4:47:14 AM

Is Jasper is so evil why is she literally the only hostile gem that never tried to kill anyone?

A: "Evil" isn't determined by whether or not you've tried to kill someone. Not all killings are evil and there are many actions that are more evil than murder.

B: Yes she has. She ordered Peridot to kill the Crystal Gems. She also fought in the Rebellion whenre she definitely would have tried to kill Crystal Gems (and probably succeeded)

How is she somehow more evil than Peridot?

She is Peridot's superior and is thus responsible for all the evil Peridot did under her command that she was aware of and didn't object to as well as her own actions. She is at least as responsible for the evil she ordered Peridot to do. Also, she's a Blood Knight while Perodot's just trying to stay away from enemies.

And I don't think you understand what a war crime is. Like at all.

Actions in war or battle which have been declared as illegal by conventions such as the Geneva Convention.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#31652: May 18th 2016 at 4:48:38 AM

I get the rather unfortunate feeling that this isn't gonna go anywhere is it?

Oh really when?
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#31654: May 18th 2016 at 4:57:46 AM

I can tell you that this ground has been well traversed in the PMMM thread. It goes back and fourth with no one achieving much.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#31655: May 18th 2016 at 5:01:13 AM

You do achieve something.

You achieve experience.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#31656: May 18th 2016 at 5:11:11 AM

What I don't understand is why you people are intent on judging these characters based off the thin slices of them that we've seen. You are literally the same folks that were raving on about how Periredemption was literally impossible before we found out that actually Peridot was the real best girl the whole time.

We're going to find out more from Jasper than just "she's evil" or even "she's evil because she think's she's doing good". While the jury's still out for YD, I really don't see how anyone could look at Peridot's arc and the set up for Lapis's arc and say that the gems aren't going to at least try to do the same for Jasper.

And I also don't see why people seem intent to prove that Lapis is pure, be it pure good or pure evil. Again, moral complexity folks, it's a real thing. She had emotional reasons behind lashing out, that doesn't mean she has justification. She wasn't in the right to do a lot of the things she did. Even if her actions weren't driven out of pure spite, she could have hurt a lot of people, and she has a long ways to go before she can really be a Crystal Gem. But again, Peridot (you know, the one who tried to kill them a couple times?) bettered herself as well, and wow look at that she's the best character in the show.

I see Jasper as the sort to have an honor code because of some of her lines ("I respected your tactics", "cheap tactic"). Though I could be very wrong here, I saw her as more a warrior class, someone who fights to fight, who believes might is right, who just needs to be shown a stronger light than her fists of... fuck, what rhymes with light?

Anywho, point being that this conversation is going in circles because you people are ignoring what the Crewniverse has done and said in the past for matters of convenience. You're all ignoring the show itself, where just last episode that horrific abomination deep in the Earth's crust was defeated through the power of friendship. Can everyone be redeemed? Maybe, maybe not, but no one is as simple as "evil" or "templar" (and no, Knight Templar isn't really that complex of a character arc).

edited 18th May '16 5:13:18 AM by InAnOdderWay

hcobb Since: Jan, 2001
#31657: May 18th 2016 at 5:19:23 AM

YD noted a distinction between Peridot's superior and her escort in Message Received.

Note the two chains of command in conflict in Jail Break.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#31658: May 18th 2016 at 5:24:44 AM

[up][up]It's a good thing those shards were all Crystal Gems or that Power of Friendship sap wouldn't have worked...at all.

edited 18th May '16 5:25:33 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#31659: May 18th 2016 at 5:33:34 AM

What I don't understand is why you people are intent on judging these characters based off the thin slices of them that we've seen.

You can never see all of a person. You can only judge what you've seen so far. Treating someone as a blank slate when you have data about them is irresponsible. Even if we learn more about them, it wouldn't change what they've done so far.

You are literally the same folks that were raving on about how Periredemption was literally impossible before we found out that actually Peridot was the real best girl the whole time.

No, I'm not. I wasn't here at the time. And I just said that i don't believe in the concept of irredeemability. And as great a character as Peridot is (I still prefer Pearl, Lapis and Connie), it doesn't absolve her of the evil she has commited in the past.

We're going to find out more from Jasper than just "she's evil" or even "she's evil because she think's she's doing good". While the jury's still out for YD, I really don't see how anyone could look at Peridot's arc and the set up for Lapis's arc and say that the gems aren't going to at least try to do the same for Jasper.

I never said that.

And I also don't see why people seem intent to prove that Lapis is pure, be it pure good or pure evil. Again, moral complexity folks, it's a real thing. She had emotional reasons behind lashing out,
I've never claimed she was pure.
that doesn't mean she has justification. She wasn't in the right to do a lot of the things she did.
She did have justification. Self-defense is the greatest justifiication there is.

Even if her actions weren't driven out of pure spite, she could have hurt a lot of people, and she has a long ways to go before she can really be a Crystal Gem.

So what?

But again, Peridot (you know, the one who tried to kill them a couple times?) bettered herself as well, and wow look at that she's the best character in the show.

She isn't the best character in the show. And yes, she's better, which is great. And yes, it's possible Jasper will too. It doesn't retroactively justify what they did in the past.

I see Jasper as the sort to have an honor code because of some of her lines ("I respected your tactics", "cheap tactic"). Though I could be very wrong here, I saw her as more a warrior class, someone who fights to fight, who believes might is right, who just needs to be shown a stronger light than her fists of... fuck, what rhymes with light?

This isn't anything that would make me more sympathetic to her.

EDIT: The Cluster has always been portrayed as sympathetic.

edited 18th May '16 5:35:14 AM by Sereg

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#31660: May 18th 2016 at 5:43:32 AM

How did this discussion start, again? Was it from someone wondering if Jasper would murder all the watermelon Stevens?

I dunno, it makes sense to me why people aren't that sympathetic to Jasper. I don't think people were sympathetic to Peridot during her first appearances. I certainly wasn't. I can't wait until we get to explore Jasper's character more. Like was mentioned, she does seem to have a code of honor. Her alignment would definitely be Lawful something. But other than that, we don't know much, so I can't wait until we get to see her more three-dimensionally. Probably won't happen for a while, though.

Anyway, who's excited for Lapis and Steven flying together? That'll be fun! I also hope we get to see Lapis being a little shit to the C Gs.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#31661: May 18th 2016 at 5:45:37 AM

It was a hypothetical situation about Jasper + Watermelon Stevens and a very unlikely one at that...that started this discussion.

edited 18th May '16 5:52:29 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#31662: May 18th 2016 at 6:22:15 AM

Huh, that's weird, but not unexpected.

Anyway, where do you think Lapis is going to live? She'll probably have to stay near Beach City so that she can visit in future episodes, but I doubt she's gonna stay in the barn.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#31663: May 18th 2016 at 6:22:19 AM

The Cluster wasn't always portrayed as sympathetic. Forced fusions, yes, but everyone always talked about the Cluster as a massive threat to all life on Earth.

No, Lapis didn't have justification. The Crystal Gems came to protect Steven (and their true relation to the mirror is unknown), and they came to protect the Earth, and both times Lapis lashed out. At no point was anyone explicitly going to hurt Lapis, even if she perceived it as such. Her actions were emotional based, and sure, it makes sense why she'd act like that. But it doesn't make her actions right. Is "self defense" manipulating the oceans (it's good that they sort of ignore the wider implications of that whole deal)?

I'm not saying that Jasper's actions weren't wrong. I am saying that treating her as some sort of static evil entity, or that she was planned as such, is in blatant disregard for the themes of the show. Is she sympathetic? Not yet, I can understand why people don't like her just as much as people didn't like Peridot. But things happen, and the show is built around the long term understandings.

EDIT: I feel like they're going to do the Barn. I feel like the Barn is a sort of "Titans East" for the show.

edited 18th May '16 6:22:51 AM by InAnOdderWay

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#31664: May 18th 2016 at 7:43:34 AM

Can we please stop? This conversation won't go anywhere until we see more evidence. Just wait, alright?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#31665: May 18th 2016 at 8:00:23 AM

She did have justification. Self-defense is the greatest justifiication there is.

Acting out on anger and mistrust is not self defense.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#31666: May 18th 2016 at 8:03:09 AM

Ugh...

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Collen the cutest lizard from it is a mystery Since: Dec, 2010
the cutest lizard
#31667: May 18th 2016 at 9:16:25 AM

I want off Ms. Jasper's wild ride!

edited 18th May '16 9:16:44 AM by Collen

Gave them our reactions, our explosions, all that was ours For graphs of passion and charts of stars...
Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#31668: May 18th 2016 at 9:39:49 AM

Funny thing is, that is someone would make topic about all this above, it would be closed down because "that's what main SU thread is for".

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#31669: May 18th 2016 at 9:56:22 AM

Amethyst cracked her gem falling onto a rock from a height that wasn't enough to poof her. I'm pretty sure the flail could hit with at least that much force. And it hit Malachite in the face, where Jasper's gem is located. It's entirely reasonable to think that Jasper's gem could have gotten cracked when she took that hit. And the fact that the animation went our of its way to avoid showing Jasper's face suggests that there's probably something wrong with Jasper's face.

I'm not going to act like they couldnt be throwing a Red Herring at us, but I'm not going to act like it's impossible for her gem to be cracked when, dramatically speaking, it is.

I'm not acting like it's impossible...the flail didn't crack Malachite's nose Gem, that's just what happened.

Alexandrite's flail didn't hit Malachite's face head on. It lassoed around her, and then hit her in the mouth, just under her nose.

Also we see Malachites face very clearly several times after that happens, and in none of them is her gem cracked. You see it right after they wrap the flail around her. There's another particularly clear shot after she's shot by Alexandrite's arrow, where her face expands, before poofing.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#31670: May 18th 2016 at 10:05:10 AM

I do wonder why her face was covered, but I highly doubt it was because of a cracked gem.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
ScottPilgrim2013 Why aren't you laughing? from Arkham Asylum Since: Jun, 2013 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Why aren't you laughing?
#31672: May 18th 2016 at 10:19:27 AM

[up][up] If not a cracked gem, why cover her face?

My Tumblr "If theirs one thing I'm good at, it's blowing" Jesse Cox 2013
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#31673: May 18th 2016 at 10:21:57 AM

There doesn't have to be a reason. They just animated it that way. And it doesn't matter, because Malachite's face is her face too, and we see that a ton.

edited 18th May '16 10:22:39 AM by xanderiskander

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#31674: May 18th 2016 at 10:29:56 AM

[up][up]Animation laziness. An entire face is literally one less thing to work one frame by frame so you can focus on other stuff. Like, between blank white hair an a whole face and how much detail I gotta do I'm gonna take the less detailed hair.

People may love to do this but work is still gonna feel like work.

The Blog The Art
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#31675: May 18th 2016 at 10:59:18 AM

I feel like it's fair to discuss things in the thread, mainly because there's literally no other place too. As long as no one goes too far and does something that'd get them thumped. And honestly, I'd rather discuss something genuinely interesting rather than make a few passing comments of the occasional fanwork or some random off topic discussions about life in general.

That being said, most of the main things to say have been said. Jasper's probably out of commission for a few episodes, which means that we won't get that much more on her, good or bad.

What I am curious is to see how Lapis and Jasper may interact later on. There are a lot of clear analogies that the Crewniverse could (and I think they will) go for here, and it's especially interesting at the prospect of Jasperredemption being a potential arc they could go down later on.

Peridot really seems to get along best with Amethyst (outside of Steven obviously), so I could see Lapis getting along best with Pearl. And, if Jasperredemption is attempted, I could easily see her getting along well with Garnet, because she seems like the sort to respect someone who's kicked her ass once before.


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