I can tell you that this ground has been well traversed in the PMMM thread. It goes back and fourth with no one achieving much.
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.You do achieve something.
You achieve experience.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.What I don't understand is why you people are intent on judging these characters based off the thin slices of them that we've seen. You are literally the same folks that were raving on about how Periredemption was literally impossible before we found out that actually Peridot was the real best girl the whole time.
We're going to find out more from Jasper than just "she's evil" or even "she's evil because she think's she's doing good". While the jury's still out for YD, I really don't see how anyone could look at Peridot's arc and the set up for Lapis's arc and say that the gems aren't going to at least try to do the same for Jasper.
And I also don't see why people seem intent to prove that Lapis is pure, be it pure good or pure evil. Again, moral complexity folks, it's a real thing. She had emotional reasons behind lashing out, that doesn't mean she has justification. She wasn't in the right to do a lot of the things she did. Even if her actions weren't driven out of pure spite, she could have hurt a lot of people, and she has a long ways to go before she can really be a Crystal Gem. But again, Peridot (you know, the one who tried to kill them a couple times?) bettered herself as well, and wow look at that she's the best character in the show.
I see Jasper as the sort to have an honor code because of some of her lines ("I respected your tactics", "cheap tactic"). Though I could be very wrong here, I saw her as more a warrior class, someone who fights to fight, who believes might is right, who just needs to be shown a stronger light than her fists of... fuck, what rhymes with light?
Anywho, point being that this conversation is going in circles because you people are ignoring what the Crewniverse has done and said in the past for matters of convenience. You're all ignoring the show itself, where just last episode that horrific abomination deep in the Earth's crust was defeated through the power of friendship. Can everyone be redeemed? Maybe, maybe not, but no one is as simple as "evil" or "templar" (and no, Knight Templar isn't really that complex of a character arc).
edited 18th May '16 5:13:18 AM by InAnOdderWay
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It's a good thing those shards were all Crystal Gems or that Power of Friendship sap wouldn't have worked...at all.
edited 18th May '16 5:25:33 AM by randomness4
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.You can never see all of a person. You can only judge what you've seen so far. Treating someone as a blank slate when you have data about them is irresponsible. Even if we learn more about them, it wouldn't change what they've done so far.
No, I'm not. I wasn't here at the time. And I just said that i don't believe in the concept of irredeemability. And as great a character as Peridot is (I still prefer Pearl, Lapis and Connie), it doesn't absolve her of the evil she has commited in the past.
I never said that.
So what?
She isn't the best character in the show. And yes, she's better, which is great. And yes, it's possible Jasper will too. It doesn't retroactively justify what they did in the past.
This isn't anything that would make me more sympathetic to her.
EDIT: The Cluster has always been portrayed as sympathetic.
edited 18th May '16 5:35:14 AM by Sereg
How did this discussion start, again? Was it from someone wondering if Jasper would murder all the watermelon Stevens?
I dunno, it makes sense to me why people aren't that sympathetic to Jasper. I don't think people were sympathetic to Peridot during her first appearances. I certainly wasn't. I can't wait until we get to explore Jasper's character more. Like was mentioned, she does seem to have a code of honor. Her alignment would definitely be Lawful something. But other than that, we don't know much, so I can't wait until we get to see her more three-dimensionally. Probably won't happen for a while, though.
Anyway, who's excited for Lapis and Steven flying together? That'll be fun! I also hope we get to see Lapis being a little shit to the C Gs.
When we're done, there won't be anything left.It was a hypothetical situation about Jasper + Watermelon Stevens and a very unlikely one at that...that started this discussion.
edited 18th May '16 5:52:29 AM by randomness4
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.The Cluster wasn't always portrayed as sympathetic. Forced fusions, yes, but everyone always talked about the Cluster as a massive threat to all life on Earth.
No, Lapis didn't have justification. The Crystal Gems came to protect Steven (and their true relation to the mirror is unknown), and they came to protect the Earth, and both times Lapis lashed out. At no point was anyone explicitly going to hurt Lapis, even if she perceived it as such. Her actions were emotional based, and sure, it makes sense why she'd act like that. But it doesn't make her actions right. Is "self defense" manipulating the oceans (it's good that they sort of ignore the wider implications of that whole deal)?
I'm not saying that Jasper's actions weren't wrong. I am saying that treating her as some sort of static evil entity, or that she was planned as such, is in blatant disregard for the themes of the show. Is she sympathetic? Not yet, I can understand why people don't like her just as much as people didn't like Peridot. But things happen, and the show is built around the long term understandings.
EDIT: I feel like they're going to do the Barn. I feel like the Barn is a sort of "Titans East" for the show.
edited 18th May '16 6:22:51 AM by InAnOdderWay
I'm not going to act like they couldnt be throwing a Red Herring at us, but I'm not going to act like it's impossible for her gem to be cracked when, dramatically speaking, it is.
Alexandrite's flail didn't hit Malachite's face head on. It lassoed around her, and then hit her in the mouth, just under her nose.
Also we see Malachites face very clearly several times after that happens, and in none of them is her gem cracked. You see it right after they wrap the flail around her. There's another particularly clear shot after she's shot by Alexandrite's arrow, where her face expands, before poofing.
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Animation laziness. An entire face is literally one less thing to work one frame by frame so you can focus on other stuff. Like, between blank white hair an a whole face and how much detail I gotta do I'm gonna take the less detailed hair.
People may love to do this but work is still gonna feel like work.
The Blog The ArtI feel like it's fair to discuss things in the thread, mainly because there's literally no other place too. As long as no one goes too far and does something that'd get them thumped. And honestly, I'd rather discuss something genuinely interesting rather than make a few passing comments of the occasional fanwork or some random off topic discussions about life in general.
That being said, most of the main things to say have been said. Jasper's probably out of commission for a few episodes, which means that we won't get that much more on her, good or bad.
What I am curious is to see how Lapis and Jasper may interact later on. There are a lot of clear analogies that the Crewniverse could (and I think they will) go for here, and it's especially interesting at the prospect of Jasperredemption being a potential arc they could go down later on.
Peridot really seems to get along best with Amethyst (outside of Steven obviously), so I could see Lapis getting along best with Pearl. And, if Jasperredemption is attempted, I could easily see her getting along well with Garnet, because she seems like the sort to respect someone who's kicked her ass once before.

A: "Evil" isn't determined by whether or not you've tried to kill someone. Not all killings are evil and there are many actions that are more evil than murder.
B: Yes she has. She ordered Peridot to kill the Crystal Gems. She also fought in the Rebellion whenre she definitely would have tried to kill Crystal Gems (and probably succeeded)
She is Peridot's superior and is thus responsible for all the evil Peridot did under her command that she was aware of and didn't object to as well as her own actions. She is at least as responsible for the evil she ordered Peridot to do. Also, she's a Blood Knight while Perodot's just trying to stay away from enemies.
Actions in war or battle which have been declared as illegal by conventions such as the Geneva Convention.