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mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#62451: Sep 2nd 2023 at 3:29:23 PM

I think only Rose might count as later developments caused fans to reevaluate her old self, but her perception changing was an Intended Audience Reaction and even happened in universe so IDK. The Diamonds were disliked once we got more information on them (because White only appeared directly in the last episode right before the "redemption"), which feels like misuse as it's just disliking the full context of a character once you have it. The Kevin bullet point sounds like stealth complaining about the Diamonds. I think he was just simply Rescued from the Scrappy Heap when he actually helped Steven and Connie make amends that one time, showing some more depth to his character. It has nothing to do with the Diamonds from what I can tell.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#62452: Sep 3rd 2023 at 12:31:13 AM

[up]So for Rose Quartz, her Broken Pedestal plotline starting Season 3 was at least decently received for adding moral complexity/tragedy to the character, but the Season 5 reveal recontextualized her prior portrayals as naive/Secretly Selfish causing her to become divisive, correct?

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#62453: Sep 3rd 2023 at 12:35:19 AM

Yeah that sounds right. I think she was always somewhat divisive, mostly due to flippant behavior in episodes like "We Need to Talk," but Season 5 really turned heads as people who loved her for being a revolutionary climbing the ranks lost that appeal and had to rethink what they'd known. Intentional, but very risky.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#62454: Sep 3rd 2023 at 7:19:29 AM

it turns out the real revolutionary was Pearl all along!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#62455: Sep 3rd 2023 at 9:43:05 AM

On top of that, later reveals in Future (especially her treatment of her original Pearl) only escalated the divide, to the point that a lot of people nowadays see her as barely any better than the other Diamonds, if even that, when she's still meant to be seen as far more nuanced than that.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Sep 3rd 2023 at 11:43:37 AM

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#62456: Sep 3rd 2023 at 10:00:20 AM

While Spinel is pretty unexcusable I hate people that ignore all the subtext of Volleyball and say it's about Pink deliberately domestically abusing Volleyball. If that was the point of the episode it wouldn't have ended with the Pearls wistfully coming to an understanding about Pink, nor would it have demonstrated that Steven ALSO has out of control screaming attacks when angered.

Everything Pink Pearl says tracks with early Pink. PD herself was domestically abused and thus had anger issues and lacked the support to actually deal with them healthily. When she hurt her Pearl she wasn't given the opportunity to make amends. Her Pearl was brainwashed and put next to White as a really sick punishment. Given Pink Pearl misses Pink, I definitely believe if she wasn't Bleached PP would have been able to mentally recover when Pink was alive.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#62457: Sep 3rd 2023 at 10:14:38 AM

Arguably due to Rose’s worsened reputation, in Spinel’s case Rose’s acts are perceived as worse than what she actually did. Tricking Spinel was unkind, but as we see in the present Spinel is a lot to Steven and doesn’t seem to take ‘I don’t want to play’ as an answer, so that may be why Rose thought she had to fool her. And Spinel stayed there for 6000 years of her own accord, instead of just getting bored and leaving like an average non-obsessed person.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#62458: Sep 3rd 2023 at 10:18:50 AM

With Spinel, the timeline seems to be entirely and completely pre-Earth. So it's Pink trying to do things with the other Diamonds, the other Diamonds are like "no, you're annoying", they made Spinel for Pink, and the Spinel was just so completely overwhelming that Pink tricked Spinel and left, probably expecting that Spinel would give up and focus on something else.

Even in her reset state, Spinel was incredibly smothering, someone who feels like the people they care about are neglecting them isn't gonna react well to being handed someone who is the polar opposite.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#62459: Sep 3rd 2023 at 10:19:36 AM

Tbh I'm surprised Lars isn't on that list, since he went from base breaker at best to being very beloved.

Also god damn those are walls of text. They need to be shortened.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#62460: Sep 3rd 2023 at 10:20:48 AM

Pink could have just,I dunno,poofed her instead of leaving her waiting,that would have been kinder at least

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SpongeGuy11 Since: Jun, 2018
#62461: Sep 3rd 2023 at 10:41:13 AM

So what would have happened if Yellow Diamond had succeeded in poofing Blue Diamond in Change Your Mind?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#62462: Sep 3rd 2023 at 10:43:59 AM

I'm picturing Blue reforming but now she's like,a regular sized gem,which is just a funny mental image

Edited by Ultimatum on Sep 3rd 2023 at 9:18:44 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
VapourSoulOS Herald of Lunar Tierce from You really expect me to know that? Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Herald of Lunar Tierce
#62463: Sep 3rd 2023 at 12:38:11 PM

[up][up] Yellow regrets her actions immediately and wonders how she's going to explain to White Diamond that she poofed Blue Diamond in a fit of rage, because she fears the consequences that White will saddle her with if she ever finds out.

"Punishment is not the answer. Punishment is easy. It's lazy. Redemption is hard. Redemption makes you work."-Skulduggery Pleasant
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#62464: Sep 3rd 2023 at 1:17:02 PM

Especially given it takes a long while for Gems that have been poofed by Yellow to reform.

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#62465: Sep 3rd 2023 at 1:19:15 PM

One million years gem dungeon!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Trickquestion I eat garbage! Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
I eat garbage!
#62466: Sep 4th 2023 at 8:50:04 AM

How was my entry about the Diamonds on Character Perception Evolution less valid than the entry about Rose? They were universally loved when people thought they were straightforward villains, metaphors for the social constructs, religious institutions and eugenics programs that have oppressed LGBTQ+ peoples all across history, then soured on them as the show kept going and revealed that actually, they’re just dumbass sitcom parents who get to be goofy side characters once their personal dispute with their family member is resolved.

The popularity of their previous portrayals *has* changed because the active eugenicist policies demonstrated with the Off-Colors and the planet killing weapon made out of raped prisoners of war are no longer shocking parallels to real world oppression, but just silly mistakes that can absolutely be walked back with no lingering resentment from any of their victims as soon as the son of god mildly chastises them.

People liked them because they were super evil, then the show tried to make them seem like they’re not actually that bad and then people stopped liking them.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#62467: Sep 4th 2023 at 9:17:28 AM

They were universally loved when people thought they were straightforward villains, metaphors for the social constructs, religious institutions and eugenics programs that have oppressed LGBTQ+ peoples all across history, then soured on them as the show kept going and revealed that actually, they’re just dumbass sitcom parents who get to be goofy side characters once their personal dispute with their family member is resolved.

The "dumbass sitcom parents" who Steven outright tried to kill at one point because he's never forgiven them and openly retains a lot of trauma from them.

Cuz y'know, the metaphor is that they're a queerphobic family that Steven can't escape from and has to tolerate at best.

the planet killing weapon made out of raped prisoners of war

...raped?

Seriously?

I don't like having to say "it's a kid's show" over and over but...it's a kid's show?

Edited by Diana1969 on Sep 4th 2023 at 11:19:39 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#62468: Sep 4th 2023 at 9:21:20 AM

I'll also say that the off colors and the people that had joined Rose's rebellion all stay on Earth/New Homeworld instead of going back. I don't think all is forgiven so much as the ones with the grudges wind up doing what Steven did and putting a lot of distance between them.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Trickquestion I eat garbage! Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
I eat garbage!
#62469: Sep 5th 2023 at 5:56:56 AM

[up][up]

From the beginning Fusion is used as a metaphor for emotional connection, sometimes sex, and is the centerpiece metaphor for the show’s morals about consent. The Cluster Experiments are referred to as “forced fusion” and the first manifestation we see of it is a rat-king of shattered Gems screaming in pain, failing to separate from each other and buried together in a mass grave. I saw “Keeping it Together” when the episode premiered and from the beginning the whole setup in the Kindergarten (note the use of a German loan word rather than someone like nursery or a fantastical made up name) read like a metaphor for a Nazi concentration camp where horrible, often sexually violating “science” experiments were performed on the prisoners.

The scene in a vacuum is incredible for how dark and scary it is, and how far it pushes the core metaphors of the show, but in the context of a story that’s trying to go for the angle that no one is irredeemably evil it’s an incredibly stupid and tasteless slice of imagery to make plot critical.

Edited by Trickquestion on Sep 5th 2023 at 5:58:58 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#62470: Sep 5th 2023 at 6:01:13 AM

forced fusion are messed up yes,you'll find no arguments here,but comparing it to a real world crime is wrong on so many levels

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Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#62471: Sep 5th 2023 at 6:12:17 AM

From the beginning Fusion is used as a metaphor for emotional connection, sometimes sex

Not sex. Fusion is not about sex. Once again, this is a kid's show.

(note the use of a German loan word rather than someone like nursery or a fantastical made up name)

Okay this is a reach. It's called Kindergarten because it sounds innocent, not because of anything Nazi-ish.

The entry is inherently biased and needs to be edited to a neutral tone, the arguments made here are all outdated and debunked.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62472: Sep 5th 2023 at 6:13:40 AM

It both is and isn't. Fusion isn't always about sex, and as the series goes on it usually isn't, but that doesn't mean it wasn't clearly used early on as a kid-friendly metaphor for themes that the adolescent and adult part of the audience they knew they had can also appreciate. Let's not go so far to defend the show from strawman criticisms that you start shutting down even other good-faith readings of the show too.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 5th 2023 at 6:15:33 AM

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#62473: Sep 5th 2023 at 6:14:46 AM

That doesn't change how ridiculous it is to refer to the forced fusions as being "raped".

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#62474: Sep 5th 2023 at 6:16:06 AM

Well sure, but I never said it wasn't?

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#62475: Sep 5th 2023 at 6:30:43 AM

I think stuff like the Cluster and the gem shard fusions are distinct enough from any human experiences that, while fusion can be a metaphor for sex, that particular thing isn't. There's no human analogue to the experience and it's an element that hammers in that Gems are very, very much not human in a lot of ways.

I think it also exists in part to show how horrible shattering is and to make it incredibly clear that while shattering removes a Gem from the equation...it's an awful, horrific thing to experience and it never ends unless the Gem is repaired.

We find out about the Breaking Point after we find out what shattering does to a Gem and I think we're supposed to look at it like this absolutely horrific outcome that should be avoided if at all possible, but I think a lot of the audience didn't quite pick up on that. It's why Bubbling is seen as the better option, because a bubbled Gem is asleep and not aware of anything and can be let out easily, but a shattered Gem is in constant agony, potentially forever.


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