Respect the Red Right Hand
...DC is a wing of Time Warner, aka Warner Bros., aka Disney's biggest, most storied rival. There's no way either will be animating the other's superheroes barring an unexpected bankruptcy followed by a buyout.
And that is why I now only read cosmic Marvel stories : stories with HUGE stakes (compare Civil War and Annihilation which took place at the same time, and tell me which one was in the great picture much more important), lovable characters that are almost all B-to-D list so almost nobody goes all fanboy over them (hellooooo, Spidey ! Hellooooo, X-Men !) and who get actual development, and even though there are shades of grey, heroism is something that is glorified.
Disney is taking over Marvel animation because they own Marvel, and have done for a couple of years.
Also, Disney actually makes quite a lot of gritty, dark, down-to-Earth stuff through their numerous subsidiaries - they just don't use the Disney name there because when people hear the name 'Disney', they think of Mickey Mouse and Sleeping Beauty.
Ukrainian Red CrossBoth of those were Marvel. I have no idea how this compares between DC and Marvel.
When both Civil War and Annihilation was going on in 2006, DC was publishing Infinite Crisis. Civil War dealt with a petty (and ultimately, completely avoidable were it not for the Conflict Ball) dispute between the Marvel heroes, and Annihilation dealt with a full-scale cosmic war between Annihilius/Nova/Thanos and a coalition of other cosmic heroes and villains. As far as stakes goes, Annihilation dealt with the fate of an entire universe—so it wins, hands down.
But DC's Infinite Crisis dealt with the fate of an entire Multiverse. Unlike Civil War and Annihilation, which competed with each other for attention and character spotlight, Crisis involved pretty much the ENTIRE DC line of comics, from Superman to the Teen Titans to the Green Lantern Corps. As far as stakes went, not only were they infinitely higher, but it involved all of the A-list characters and writing talent.
So, yeah, I'm not seeing the argument here.
O_o;;;
Spider-man is probably the character that fans go the second-most "fanboy" over (after Batman). Look at the "Sins Past", "One More Day" and recently "Death Of Spider-man" debacles. Spider-man is a character that fans feel personally offended when you screw over.
And don't get me started on the X-Men.
And then promptly reversed. See: Spider-man and the X-Men, ironically.
Besides that, Character Development isn't everything. DC characters may be flatter by comparison, but their stories can have interesting metaphorical and allegorical points. Superman can be written in an interesting To Be Lawful or Good situation that asks just what being Lawful or Good means. Spider-man? Who the fuck cares? If he does the heroic thing, the story shows how selfless and ideal he is. If he does the selfish thing, the story shows how flawed and "human" he is. There's no need to be consistent, because he's meant to be both the most human and the most heroic character at the same time.
Depends on the book, the era, and the characters. The Avengers and the Fantastic Four are mostly idealistic. The X-Men are more neutral than anything. The Punisher, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Doctor Strange, and The Hulk are highly cynical.
edited 28th Jan '13 10:10:49 AM by KingZeal
Wat.
Spider-man is probably the character that fans go the second-most "fanboy" over (after Batman). Look at the "Sins Past", "One More Day" and recently "Death Of Spider-man" debacles. Spider-man is a character that fans feel personally offended when you screw over.
And don't get me started on the X-Men.
I think he was being ironic about Spidey and the X-Men, implying he greatly prefered the more obscure Marvel cosmic characters.
Respect the Red Right Hand
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I wouldn't say the X-Men are neutral. Or at least, they didn't used to be. They used to be all "Let's save Dallas from aliens" and now they mainly stick to themselves and deal with mutant threats. Either way, I think they function better away from the rest of the MU. It gets a little jarring to hear people hate mutants, and yet Captain America never holds a press conference and says "I want you to meet Hank, Wanda, and Logan. They're my best buds." That and everybody's reasons for hating mutants instead of regular superheroes are stupid. They hate mutants for being born with awesome powers, but they love the people who got those powers through choice or accident.
I'd say there's a difference in that, while freak accidents are a relatively rare thing, even in a superhero universe, mutant births are a common ocurrence quickly in the rise. Misguided as it is, there is kind of a reason to think mutantkind can 'move in' to replace mankind more easily than other kinds of superpowered beings.
Not if you just dismiss him as an alien. "Sufficiently advanced science" and all that.
Actually, there was a pretty good story, in the "Thor: Heaven and Earth" mini from 2011 (an excellent mini, by the way), about a Catholic priest dealing with doubts resulting from seeing Thor. The priest demands answers about what Thor's existence means for his own faith, and Thor promises to give him an answer. Later, he confesses to Sif that he doesn't have one. Thor promises to give the priest an answer, some explanation that reconciles his existence with the priest's faith, before the priest dies. Thor ultimately tells him that he has no answer. That he's asking the same questions the priest is: Who am I, where do I come from? And the answer: Ask me tomorrow.
It's a really sweet story, and actually does a very good job reconciling Thor's existence with the beliefs of other religions by not trying to reconcile them. By saying that there are things even the gods don't understand, and that the gods question their beliefs the same as mortals do.
X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.And you invoke my mandatory urging of everybody to read Strontium Dog.
I feel the same way. Thor can categorically and in no uncertain terms truthfully say "The Norse gods are real." He could potentially go even further and say "Also, you're worshipping a false god. Sorry about that.", kind of like the inverse of what the early Christian missionaries to Scandinavia said to the natives.
Now, he probably couldn't go so far as to say "Asatru is the one true faith and I am proof" because aren't the Greek gods also extant in the Marvel Universe.
Ukrainian Red CrossThe Asgardians have their own gods. And who knows if they might have their gods. Thor has met many, many gods. He's met pretty much all the gods of Earth - except the god of the Abrahamic religions. He's never met YHWH. He knows no more about Moses, Jesus or Mohammed than we do. So he actually doesn't disprove those religions at all.
Download the comic, it's a good story.
X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.I wasn't saying he disproved them. I was saying that, because of the All Myths Are True nature of the Marvel Universe, Thor doesn't have the same existentialist problems that we do.
Rather, he has a different problem. He feels like he lives in a world made of cardboard Because Marvel can't make up their minds if Clap Your Hands If You Believe actually works or not, ALL of his creation stories are, to a degree, true. Unlike actual people, who don't even know where to begin to figure out how they came to exist, or where they go when they die, Thor has a Multiple-Choice Past and his niece is death.
edited 29th Jan '13 10:31:28 AM by KingZeal
To go back to the original topic a little more...
I'm finding that I prefer DC strongly to Marvel these days, despite priding myself on a lack of preference for one or the other. I started wondering what it was, and then I checked out some of the Marvel comics that I've heard good things about (Captain Marvel, Hickman's FF run)...and immediately figured out my issue.
Marvel's editors seem to have an obsession with Real Is Brown and thus hire colorists who adhere to it. And as a result, I am finding most Marvel comics really, really ugly. (The current runs of Hawkeye, Fantastic Four, and FF are the only exceptions I am seeing.) Whereas the colors in most DC series I've checked out (Earth 2, Wonder Woman, Amethyst, the Flash) are pretty lovely.
Am I just having bad luck with the series I am interested in, or is this a trend other people have noticed among the Marvel vs. DC divide?
To srebak:
You touch upon some of the core characteristics of the DC and Marvel universes (take a look at Kurt Busiek and George Perez's JLA vs Avengers for a pretty good crystallization of this idea). I'd say DC's approach is more optimistic, while Marvel's is more naturalistic, if a touch exaggerated. Both approaches are entirely valid; just depends on what your personal taste is. I'd say it's kind of like what Quentin Tarantino said about Elvis and the Beatles: you can like both, but everybody has a definite preference.
You're right in pointing out that Marvel's haters have a point. You see the same thing echoed in George R.R. Martin's Wild Cards book series. It's obvious from the way it's portrayed that the haters' ACTIONS are wrong, but you can't fault them in seeing the super-human/mutant types as a threat. Still, the guy sitting next to you on the bus could haul off and hit you in the mouth if he wanted, and likely no one could stop him before he did it. Does that mean we should all walk around in handcuffs?
J.Jonah Jameson, though, is kind of special. Simply put, hates Spider-Man (the reasons why vary depending on who's writing him); he would, and has, castigate Spidey for his inaction as often for his actions. Whether thid is just to dive up sales of the Bugle or for deeper reasons, again, depends on who's writing him.
I feel like the big difference between Marvel and DC is that DC deals in archetypes while Marvel deals in characters. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman . . . they're archetypal figures. They represent concepts. Marvel's characters are, by and large, smaller, and more human.
X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.I feel like Marvel benefits from the shared universe a lot more. I just always thought that someone like Superman or the Flash should be able to clean up Gotham in a week. And while Marvel does revert to the status quo after most major shake-ups, I prefer that to DC's constant universe meddling and rebooting.
But on the other hand, Batman.
The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]Marvel Odin has met the Abrahamic God, and the Yoruba God(who may be the same entity), and the Shinto gods. I guess Thor may not have met them but daddy never told bedtime stories? Thor has met Ghost Rider and Mephistopheles, he must at least have heard of Marduk Curious, Lucifer, Lilith, Baal, Lilith, Dracula, Uri-El or the Hand of God? I suppose Thor did not realize that ringing heard throughout the universe was falling gates of heaven either.
Thor should have some idea. All a God in the Marvel universe seems to be is a living part of the cosmology, Thor is "just" part of the Ragnarok cycle that feeds some guys who sit above in shadow and periodically remake Asgard. The human worship thing was just to get soldiers for the cycle.
Marvel has more interesting characters and will go places studying them that DC will not but DC's much better thought out setting usually does not allow scenarios as elaborated above, any relevant figure would know exactly how the god wave/source/presence tied into faith. As far as who has better comics? Neither, I just like Marvel out of nostalgia I guess, or maybe because despite its idiot plots I still have attachments to several characters. Even if it is better it is hard to get invested in setting that has been arbitrarily redone three times.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

While i've never actually read the comic books, i have developed an interest in both DC and Marvel comics heroes, courtesy of the television and movie adaptations.
However, for the longest time, DC has always had my eye more than Marvel. At least up until 2007-8, when i started to take an interest in Marvel Comics shows, since they delved into things that i found interesting at the time. I enjoyed the shows (for the most part), don't get me, but for a while, it felt like i was turning my back on DC in favor of Marvel, and that kinda made me feel a little bad. I got over though, and now i think i've found an adequate balance of watching them both.
Of course, now, i have a new problem: the way they both make me think. As i said, Marvel delved into things that i found interesting, but other parts of it just leave a bad taste in my mouth, namely when heroes are treated as threats and get little to no breaks from anyone. The sad part of it is, i can actually see some the basis within this treatment. J.Jonah Jameson makes a valid point; New York did have to deal with villains like Doctor Octopus or the Scorpion until after Spiderman came along, and Senator Robert Kelly makes a good point as well: Magneto and Sinister prove that some Mutants can be dangerous. I just wish this kind of treatment and abuse did not go unpunished, The X-men have likely save more lives than they've been claimed to have endangered, and Kelly was one of them a few times, yet he still thinks they're a threat, I mean really, they save his life and that's not enough? Similarly, if Spiderman were just stop being a hero and all the villains came out of the woodwork and swamped the police, all Jameson would be yammering on about is how Spiderman was to blame and how he abandoned New York. Even though, the only logical reason why he would leave is because of Jameson.
I guess this is why i like DC more, because it focuses more on fantastical stories and more or less ignores too realistic themes, to the point where all can really remember about their shows is the action, with a few exceptions. Also, the heroes of DC are hailed as heroes and are only rarely chastised by anyone. And shortly after we meet the person denouncing them, a series of events makes said person realize that they were wrong to chastise said hero and understand just how important they are. However, DC has attempted to add a more down to Earth feel to their stories and while that is good, it also has more or less the same effect on me as Marvel did. And the worst part of it is, if i don't want to watch the more down to Earth stuff, my only other option is think about the more corny/cheesy stuff, dating back to the Superfriends era.
This is all very taxing on my mind, I want to believe that all writers go through this, but i worry that it's just a problem that i have. And to add on to this issue, Disney; a name that I (along with several others) grew up with, is apparently taking over rights to Marvel Animation. Why Marvel, why not DC, especially since, like DC, Disney is known for making movies that are more fantastical than down to Earth (okay, granted they did go down the latter road with a few of their TV shows, but still). Now, whenever i think of Disney, it will be synonymous with Marvel and vice verca. I repeat, why not go with DC?
Any thoughts on my problem or any similar problems?