Laconic Description Improvement

- Much better.

Done.

Its spin off doesn't have a very good Laconic either:

Suggested replacement:

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 13th 2018 at 11:04:30 AM

- Yes.

Laconic.My Skull Runneth Over:

Better if it's something like:

Edited by Malady on Sep 18th 2018 at 6:54:09 AM

The My Skull Runneth Over laconic is an improvement, but I'm not sure why it's in quote marks. The previous one isn't.

Also, Laconic.Magical Girl seems unsatisfactory. Anyone has an idea for something better?

- I think I intended to just use normal quotes, then switched to quoteblocks after.

Changed it. Maybe turn "this" into "that", but too minor for me to do it?

Magical Girl:

"A girl with magical powers."

Or is that too general?

I think that is much worse than the current.

- Mmm.

Well, the current is: "Girl gains superpowers and pretty clothes."

I'm fine with superpowers being a part of Magical Girl-ness, but pretty clothes? Is that a requirement?

Also, the superpowers likely must be of a magical nature, else it's not a Magical girl?

I have never seen something described as Magical Girl that didn't involve gaining an elaborate cutesy outfit with the powers.

If Cute Witch is a Magical Girl subtrope, as Magical Girl states... There's the clothing, but not usually as a direct result of the magic?

Also, the oldest examples don't seem to have transforms... Or are they not examples?:

• Anime.Majokko Meg Chan
• Manga.Himitsu No Akkochan (Has transformations into other things, but as a result of the spells, not as a result of gaining magic, and not clothing transformation only)
• Manga.Sally The Witch

Edited by Malady on Sep 26th 2018 at 8:06:47 AM

Cute Witch usually has a cutsey costume, but not necessarily a transformation sequence, unlike other subtropes which do.

Young girls learning to find their place in the world while secretly fighting to protect it with magical powers.

- Way too specific?

I'd really like something that expresses the trope name, and just the trope name, else it means the name isn't Clear...

Laconic.Normally I Would Be Dead Now:

TO:

'Cause the name seems like it would fit any case of someone surviving possibly fatal things, even if the reason were hidden body armor.

I like that.

Why is that too specific? It seems to cover all the subtropes. Not all girls with magic powers are magical girls; it's a trope with a specific cultural context and type of plotline associated with it.

I don't like the idea that laconics should be solely based on the title. What's the point of having one then? Wouldn't that be redundant with the title? Even when you have a good title, there is sometimes more nuance to the definition that can fit into the laconic. And there are also cases such as this one where the trope title may not be super indicative, but it's such a widely-used term that we have to go with it.

Another problem is that, as the description points out, in the West Magical Girl is associated more with the Magical Girl Warrior or at least transforming hero elements than with Cute Witch, even though the latter trope is important in the development of other forms of magical girl.

- Well, my thought is that Laconics should not present an idea that has a different scope than the title does.

Laconic.Show Within A Show, I like, "A program that the characters in-universe are watching.", because it clarifies the meanings of "show" and "within".

If the meanings of Magical Girl are too broad, that seems like it should be turned into a disambig, or something.

—-

The proposed Laconic, from , seems to require both a Coming of Age Story, and a Masquerade, which I'm not sure applies to all Magical Girl things... But they might...

... What's the Trope Codifier for Magical Girl? If they are Sailor Moon and Cardcaptor Sakura, then I'll accept that Laconic, even though it's wordier than I'd like.

But if the Trope Maker is Sally the Witch, then I'd remove Masquerade...

I can be overruled by a majority, so go ahead and disagree, if you wish.

Edited by Malady on Oct 1st 2018 at 8:38:05 AM

Is Laconic.Nightmare Fuel Station Attendant correct? I was under the impression that the trope was about a non-malicious character accidentally coming off as creepy to others.

Edited by LazyHazy on Oct 2nd 2018 at 1:20:01 AM

Laconic.Troperiffic reads

This needs to be rephrased without the implication that tropes are normally inherently bad.

"Works that binge on tropes"?

- Interesting... Not sure it's that accurate, 'cause you're anthromorphizing a work, but whatever.

Laconic.Added Alliterative Appeal is

Now, I know this one gets way over-sinkholed, but I'm at least fairly certain that it's not specific to trope names.

- It previously was a list of trope names... Then I changed it...

Now we're deciding on whether it's a trope or not... 6 votes for yes. Wanna put your hat in?

Edited by Malady on Oct 6th 2018 at 7:31:47 AM

The proposed Laconic, from , seems to require both a Coming-of-Age Story, and a Masquerade, which I'm not sure applies to all Magical Girl things... But they might...

I went reading up on what Magical Girl meant outside TV Tropes, and the general genre analysis was that Magical Girl stories are actually coming-of-age stories in some fashion at the core of them, expressed through contrast between their ordinary daily lives and their (usually secret) magical responsibilities.

That combined with TV Tropes is why I suggested the wording I did.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Oct 7th 2018 at 12:44:53 PM

- I'll admit that Coming of Age Story is a usual part of things. Just not fully sure about the Masquerade, but I'll accept it.

You wanna change it, or me?

Laconic.Transformation Sequence:

From:

To:

Or

'Cause "Needlessly long, flashy" seems judgemental?

Edited by Malady on Oct 8th 2018 at 7:36:11 AM

The essence of the Transformation Sequence is that it is long and drawn-out. Both examples you offer are consistent with an instantaneous transformation from one form to another, which is pretty much the opposite of what the trope is. The whole point of a Transformation Sequence is that it takes a while and there are lots of flashing lights, cool spins and pans, special power-up music, and other bells and whistles. It doesn't add anything to the plot (thus the needlessly), it's mostly just Rule of Cool (and sometimes a genre convention). Also, Transformation Sequences are often used as Stock Footage to pad out episodes and save animation money, so it can feel pretty unnecessary after this happens every episode.

I suppose you could delete the "needlessly" if it seems too complainy, but is there any evidence of misuse here? Are people using Transformation Sequence as a complaint dump?

Edited by naturalironist on Oct 9th 2018 at 1:23:14 PM

- As far as I know, it seems fine, I just thought it was a bit wordy.

So, what would instantaneous transformations be? Transformation Is a Free Action? Oh, yeah, apparently. ... That was only noted at the very end...

Edited by Malady on Oct 9th 2018 at 10:39:43 AM