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I've heard it said that violations of Example Indentation In Trope Lists is a major problem. Fixing it is certainly a long-term project, but something has to be done about it.
I am happy to say that I have taken steps to address this problem. Just check out the pages Death Of The Family, Scandal, Revolution, Person of Interest, The Casual Vacancy, In Death, Septerra Core, X Wing Vs Tie Fighter, Fear Effect, Dark Forces Saga and Oni to see nicely indented examples.
I sent private messages to the following tropers to let them know about indenting examples:
It's a long list, and I'm happy to say that some of them have learned their lesson. Also, I want to thank troacctid for letting me know about my mistakes with indenting examples and inspiring me to do all this!
edited 8th Feb '13 5:35:44 PM by TiggersAreGreat
Sweet! We can use all the help on this we can get. Thanks for making the effort!
Thanks for doing this! For other tropers who want a quick PM to send, here's one from Sandbox.Natterfy Button Messages Idea.
The <page> edit you made on <time stamp> is indented incorrectly. We try to leave similar stuff to same bullet levels and to avoid having lone subbullets or below third-level bullets. Please feel free to merge or split stuff between various bullets according to How To Use Bullet Points and to use paragraph breaks whenever a Wall of Text turns up. Thanks for helping us keep the wiki cool.
During winter 2012, I did often work on this, but then I got sucked into TRS.
Prolly time to reastart the bullet point cleaning.
I try to do two pages day. More than that feels like a full time job.
Here's the standardized PM I use:
Hello. Your edit on [[Page Name]] contains incorrect Example Indentation.
When there is a single example from a show we follow this format:
If however, there is more than one example in a single show, the format goes like this:
Remember that a triple star is most likely unneeded.
Please remember that...
....is incorrect and should not be used.
Since the most common mistake is the last point, I thought beneficial to include it.
It's an important issue for the Inbound Watch too. One of the most useful cleanups you can do is fixing up stuff like this on the pages that are getting the heaviest traffic of the day.
There should probably be a thread for Inbound Watch.
edited 22nd Jan '13 8:37:53 PM by troacctid
Outside of the pages I specifically watch, haven't gone out of my way to fix it, but when I see it while doing something else (namespacing, primarily... and with the originally umpteen hundred wrong wicks for Babylon 5, that covered a lot of territory ) I clean it up as best I can, at least for examples where I'm not totally lost as to how to make it work (or at least be less-wrong than before). Unfortunately, where I fall short the most is in anime/manga sections, and given the demographics of TVT that covers a metric fuckton of territory.
edited 23rd Jan '13 6:51:29 AM by Nohbody
Do you really need to know the works if you're fixing indentations, though? Usually I find it works to just add an asterisk to the first one, and drag the name of the series one line up with a single asterisk, and you're basically done for most of the cases. For more nested ones, it's usually enough to just read what the example is saying, and it's often more about Repair Dont Respond than improper indentation, though they amount to sort of the same in the end. Badly written examples.
A lot of it is, yes, simply putting the work title as the first level, then the entries as seconds (or rarely, thirds).
However, some of the ones I've come across do require some knowledge of the work to determine what's important to the example, and what's crap (primarily Justifying Edit and Conversation In The Main Page, as I recall). Unfortunately, I can't remember specific examples to point to, and with the mass namespacing I've been doing looking through my edit history requires a lot of time that I honestly can't be assed to spend.
For those things, first I consider if the justification argues against the example, in which case I may reach the conclusion that the example is arguable, which makes it a non-example. Or I remove or rewrite the justification if there still is an example even with that in mind.
Plain natter goes away, unless it actually adds something to the example, and is relevant for the trope. Then I just tag the sentence onto the same paragraph if it fits well enough. But most of the time it's not relevant to the trope in question, even if it's quite interesting. But we're not QI.
I agree with Another Duck that it's usually pretty easy to fix, but I agree with Nohbody that there are cases where the solution isn't obvious without further info. I saw one yesterday where I had absolutely no idea if the secondary bullet was a justifying edit/Take That!, or a legitimate second example about someone mentioned in the first example. I decided it was probably the latter, but I'm still not sure I made the right decision.
Eh, I go for the line on Word Cruft: If it contradicts the previous entry, delete both. If it's a Justifying Edit, I remove just the edit.
This one was about a diss, and the second example was issued against the person who issued the first, and I really wasn't sure if the people who issued the second diss were the right kind of people for that particular type of diss, since I had no familiarity with the work.
Hey, I got a question, and it goes like this: on the page Death Of The Family, there's this one trope listed and it's indented like this:
So I tried changing the indentation to this:
Also, I sent a private message to Shaoken about example indentation, but he reverted it back to the way he had it, claiming that I made a mistake and that "indentation when there are multiple examples" is used.
What's the best way to resolve the indentation of this trope?
edited 3rd Feb '13 7:22:41 AM by TiggersAreGreat
It doesn't look to be two separate examples, just one that is rather complicated. It also doesn't look like an aversion. It sounds like a subversion: we were tricked into thinking we have a Brainwashed and Crazy Batman but it was then revealed to be an impostor.
The "Actually" makes it look like a Justifying Edit.
I don't even see how the "actually" line is relevant for the trope. And yes, one of the rare cases of Actually A Subversion.
The indentation you changed it to is the correct one for multiple examples, so Shaoken in wrong.
This case appears to be a Repair Dont Respond issue, though, with one example and a misformatted "elaboration" on it. In cases like these you can fold the second line into the first one and do away with the second level of indentation completely. (Or, sometimes, if the "elaboration" doesn't really add anything, you can just delete it. But I'd go with the consolidation here.)
It was one thought. No indentation at all was needed. For these cases, ignore the fact that there are two or more authors separated by time who have added text and apply the logic you would use to break your own writing into paragraphs or to consolidate them.
edited 3rd Feb '13 5:44:31 PM by FastEddie
Well, okay. That's good to know.
There's this one type of example that's been nagging at me. Here's a trope from Republic Of Doyle:
When a trope has quoted dialogue with it, how should it be indented? It's just that there's nothing in Example Indentation In Trope Lists explaining how that should be handled!
Quotes aren't indented, they have their own markup (the one in your post) that doesn't work in the forums.
Here's another thing I've noticed across many pages. This instance is from the Cutie Mark Crusaders page of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic:
I've noticed how some tropes get indented like this, supposedly to show a connection. What should be done with those ones? I don't think that was covered in Example Indentation In Trope Lists.
Remove the subbullet. Alphabetical listing is always preferred, since everybody does understand it and not everybody understands this sorting.
Two separate trope entries. "The Reason You Suck" Speech should be on its own line, with the Big Sister Worship entry adding something like ", although her worship of Rarity isn't absolute all of the time." (and the addition should not include anything about "see "The Reason You Suck" Speech", as that's bad troping as well).
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