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Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#1: Jan 4th 2013 at 3:22:05 PM

Ok, I think this has grown to the point where it's worth discussing special efforts.

A while ago, I began collecting examples of works that are listed under a medium that's not the original medium. In general, if we only have one page on a work, it should be the original medium—not the best known. The people working on Anime and Manga have been remarkably careful about this. The rest of us? Not so much. Adaptation Displacement means that people tend to create a page about the Film of the Book rather than the Book.

A few other people have noticed my sandbox page, either because I mentioned it on the forums, or just because they saw it on a related-to page. So it's grown to a decent size. So maybe it's time to make it official, and even start considering what we should do with some of these.

Some examples may require discussion or research—because the Adaptation isn't always the same as the original. So it's not necessarily a matter of just moving pages. We probably need to make decisions on a case-by-case basis.

In any event, if you find examples, you can list them on Sandbox.Work With Other Medium Originals. I think it's fairly self-explanatory. Likewise, if you find that one of these has been resolved, either by you or by others, feel free to remove it. And if you're not sure about one, feel free to bring it up in this thread.

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nemui10pm from outer space Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#2: Jan 4th 2013 at 10:43:14 PM

Thank you for creating the list. I added a couple of examples that I've come across and rearranged the list in alphabetical order - this will hopefully make double entries less likely and make it easier for tropers to find works that they know about (and therefore are able to make a page for).

A genius, a philosopher, an abstract thinker
Telcontar In uffish thought from England Since: Feb, 2012
In uffish thought
#3: Jan 5th 2013 at 1:42:19 AM

Taking a look at the first one on the list, why is Film.The Amityville Horror an issue? It's a film page with exactly one trope directly relating to the novel, so it would be out of place in Literature/.

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#4: Jan 5th 2013 at 3:23:08 AM

[up]That just means its one of the tricky ones. We're still supposed to have the original format as the main (if not necessarily only) page. A lot of those tropes probably do apply to the book as well, but we're going to have to figure out which ones.

Adaptation pages are always supposed to be secondary to the page for the original. Take a look at just about anything in the Light Novel/ namespace, and you'll see how it's supposed to be done. Most of the examples will be from the Manga or Anime adaptations, because that's what we mostly see in the west, but the pages are still in the Light Novel/ namespace, because that's the original format.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#5: Jan 5th 2013 at 3:25:52 AM

Nobody organizes pages like this but the Anime & Manga crowd because they don't know all the media and won't create a page about the film under the Literature/ page because it makes no sense to write a page about a film in the Literature/ namespace. And as a reader, it would look really weird. See: Principle of least astonishment

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Jan 5th 2013 at 8:51:08 AM

We can't realistically make a rule that the page for the original medium has to be made first. I know scores of people who have seen the movie Fight Club, and not one single person who has read the original book. Having a rule that the original medium has to be made first would mean that we can't have a page on the movie until someone who has read the book stumbles in and makes that page.

Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#7: Jan 5th 2013 at 10:03:57 AM

There's also the question of if the adaptation diverges from the original enough to warrant separate pages for the two, something that is not easy to answer. I've rewritten Arsenic and Old Lace and The Cat and the Canary to talk about the original plays first, but Paint Your Wagon had a plot different enough for me to write it up as a separate page from the film. I added Key Largo to the sandbox page, and then removed it when I discovered that the film was an In Name Only adaptation.

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#8: Jan 5th 2013 at 12:38:52 PM

We do have a bunch of literature pages that are dominated by the Film of the Book. I don't see that as being a big problem. (Obviously, in such cases, it's a good idea to have a redirect at Film/.) I agree about In Name Only, which is probably why we have to discuss some of these.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#9: Jan 5th 2013 at 12:39:12 PM

[up][up][up]Agreed.

This feels like another attempt to bypass the wiki format because someone doesn't like its results.

edited 5th Jan '13 12:39:20 PM by nrjxll

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#10: Jan 5th 2013 at 2:24:28 PM

I'm simply trying to start a discussion. Obviously we want pages on the original works, so, if nothing else, my sandbox provides a useful list of pages we should have. But more importantly, there's inconsistency in how we handle things. As I said, we have many Literature/ pages that have more focus on the film than the book. (And I've never seen anyone complain about any of those pages.)

Several of the pages in the sandbox do have examples from both media. If they don't, we may need to wait, or try to track down someone who knows the original work, but it's still useful to have the list, I think. And to discuss the various examples. I'm all in favor of holding off on any action on The Amityville Horror until we get more info on the book, but others may be easier to resolve.

(Many of these have so few wicks that if I thought it were really just a matter of "move them, period", I would have done so. Instead, I'm bringing them here for discussion.)

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SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#11: Jan 6th 2013 at 2:42:29 AM

There is already a page for works that need pages: List Of Shows That Need Summary

My post was mostly meant to explain why we are having problems with any policy that says we have to create a work page in the namespace of the original medium.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#12: Jan 7th 2013 at 1:08:02 PM

Chakan: The Forever Man was created in ComicBook/, but seems to be all about the video game, despite nominally being about both.

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#13: Jan 7th 2013 at 2:53:50 PM

[up] There should definitely be a redirect from VideoGame.Chakan The Forever Man, but I'm not seeing enough there to justify a split.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
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