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There was talk about renaming the Krugman thread for this purpose, but that seems to be going nowhere. Besides which, I feel the Krugman thread should be left to discuss Krugman while this thread can be used for more general economic discussion.

Discuss:

  • The merits of competing theories.
  • The role of the government in managing the economy.
  • The causes of and solutions to our current economic woes.
  • Comparisons between the economic systems of different countries.
  • Theoretical and existing alternatives to our current market system.

edited 17th Dec '12 10:58:52 AM by Topazan

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#17326: Apr 18th 2017 at 12:43:05 PM

Genuinely curious, how does that work if we stop making pennies? Does everyone just start rounding prices to the nearest 5 cents, or do you just eat the difference when making change, or what?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#17327: Apr 18th 2017 at 12:49:34 PM

It would be up to individual businesses to determine how to manage those transactions, but rounding seems like the simplest way.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#17328: Apr 18th 2017 at 1:01:46 PM

In Canada, most stores just round to the nearest 5 cents if paying in cash. However, some stores always round up, others always round down. If you're using a card, there is no rounding.

I don't know how Americans will react to it though. I've met tourists who were utterly flabbergasted by the concept of colourful money that I can't trust them to understand the idea of not having a penny anymore. Expect lots of outbursts of "that's just unamerican!"

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#17329: Apr 18th 2017 at 1:05:15 PM

In Brazil we also round up up or down, people complain about it but it is really inconvenient to carry around pennies and nickles, specially when you don't give them any worth besides making your wallet needlessly heavy with all that loose change.

Inter arma enim silent leges
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#17330: Apr 18th 2017 at 1:21:31 PM

[up]x2 Jeez.... between that and the anecdote you shared a few days ago about the woman who screamed at the sight of a chip card reader, all I can say is, we're not all like that.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#17331: Apr 18th 2017 at 1:46:22 PM

[up] I know, I just worked really close to Niagara Falls and in a hugely overpriced absurdly gaudy waterpark/resort/hotel thing. We got the dumber end of the tourist spectrum, cause smart people would stay in the Hilton and seriously save like 50% of the cost of their trip.

edited 18th Apr '17 1:46:56 PM by Zendervai

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#17332: Apr 18th 2017 at 2:57:59 PM

In Argentina we round it, and by law it has to be rounded in favor of the consumer.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#17333: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:05:42 PM

One of my favorite used game stores rounds down to the nearest nickel and I have no qualms with that, save for that it's not to the nearest dime.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#17334: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:06:22 PM

In Brazil we also round up up or down, people complain about it but it is really inconvenient to carry around pennies and nickles, specially when you don't give them any worth besides making your wallet needlessly heavy with all that loose change.

Yeah, I really don't see one-cent coins anymore as far as shopping goes. Generally most stores I go to round up when giving change, but it's really not a big deal to me either way tbh. I can't say I really miss carrying around pennies.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#17335: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:08:31 PM

On the one hand I do hate pennies. On the other, those stores are gonna have to pry those two cents from my cold dead hands, they're not rounding up prices on my poor ass.

Oh really when?
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#17336: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:13:21 PM

[up]The people who charge $9.99 to trick you into not seeing a 10 will probably round down to continue obfuscating that fact they made the thing for less than $1.

It's psychology at work, not economics.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#17337: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:14:19 PM

You can set prices so that taxes round to the nearest multiple of 5 or 10 cents. Stores just don't bother usually.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#17338: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:36:00 PM

Most prices are set at the nearest .05 anyway- its usually the sales tax that raises the price an odd number of cents.

I hate the idea of dollar coins, though. My pockets are heavy enough already.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#17339: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:37:54 PM

Gimme $1 and $5 coins. I went to Japan last February and 500 yen coins are great.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#17340: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:40:56 PM

I'm totally down for $1 and $5 coins.

Oh really when?
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#17341: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:47:50 PM

I'm less into 5 dollar coins...but here in Canada we already have the Toonie (2 dollar coin). I don't really want three coins for 1, 2 and 5 dollars.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#17342: Apr 18th 2017 at 4:09:32 PM

I would actually be happy replacing all coins with little bills.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#17343: Apr 25th 2017 at 6:43:32 AM

[up]Alot of one cent bills will make me feel like I had a thick wallettongue

Canadian Experiment (...should be the name of a movie...) Ontario to try giving poor a basic income

Canada's largest province is experimenting with giving poor people a basic income with no strings attached.

The three-year study will test whether this basic income is better than current social welfare programmes.

Randomly selected participants living in three communities in Ontario will be given at least C$16,989 ($12,600, £9,850) a year to live on.

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne said it is time to be "bold" in figuring out how to help society's most vulnerable.

"This is no time to retreat, this is no time for government to cling to the status quo," she said when the pilot was announced on Monday.

Ontario is not the only one trying this policy out.

Finland recently launched its own trial in January, and the Scottish government has expressed interest.

Ontario's pilot project will roll out in Hamilton and Thunder Bay this spring, and Lindsay this fall.

The program will cost C$50m a year, and will include 4,000 households from across those three communities. Participants must have lived in one of the areas for over a year, be between 18-64 and be living on a lower income.

Single adults will be given a yearly income of C$16,989, while couples will earn C$24,027, minus 50% of any income earned from a job.

By allowing people to keep part of their earnings, the government hopes people will be encouraged to work and not rely solely on assistance.

"It's not an extravagant sum by any means," Wynne said, noting that many people who are struggling in the province are employed part-time and need additional assistance to make ends meet.

(Emphasis added)
Looking forward to seeing how this goes, though the bold portion makes it look more like a hybrid of basic income and a a means-tested program.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#17344: Apr 25th 2017 at 6:51:56 AM

I like the experiment, but I'm worried about the person behind it. Kathleen Wynne, Premier of Ontario, has a laundry list of failed policies behind her because she doesn't pay attention to potential consequences. Her approval rating is currently around 12 percent if that makes it clear. Right now her modus operandi is to constantly announce things that she thinks will get her support, discover that it's either way more expensive than she said or that it isn't working to fix her rating, and then she cans it.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#17345: Apr 25th 2017 at 7:07:11 AM

Looking forward to seeing how this goes, though the bold portion makes it look more like a hybrid of basic income and a a means-tested program.

That and the fact that it's specifically targeted to lower-income individuals has many UBI advocates skeptical of the experiment, since it's not true Universal Basic Income.

I imagine like the experiment in Finland that this was designed for political reasons. Simply giving people money is still something that a lot of people (even those who would otherwise benefit) would reject out of hand like they did in Switzerland, so having some strings attached may just be a necessary evil to get the ball rolling.

Still, it would be interesting to compare this to how generous welfare benefits in Canada (and specifically Ontario) are normally since there is always the possibility that this will be used as a back-door to benefits cuts, which is what some have speculated that the experiment in Finland is about.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#17346: Apr 25th 2017 at 7:07:27 AM

Single adults will be given a yearly income of C$16,989 [≈ Per capita income - Sweden, 2005], while couples will earn C$24,027 [≈ Per capita income - United Kingdom, 2005], minus 50% of any income earned from a job.

Courtesy of my Dictionary of Numbers Chrome extension.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#17348: Apr 26th 2017 at 7:55:24 PM

How The Government's Super-Platinum Credit Card Works. In which a nation with a sovereign currency's ability to create or destroy money is compared to... a super-platinum credit card.

That said, it's written with the British context in mind, so YMMV on how transferable it is... well, actually it is. Damned if I know how to convince the populace at large that the national debt isn't nearly a big a deal as they think it is, though.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#17350: Apr 27th 2017 at 5:01:20 AM

Equiblog: How gig economy companies fit (or don't fit) into the tax system.

Summary of the article: Companies like Uber, Lyft, and Airbnb may be taking advantage of exceptions or loopholes in tax law, costing millions in federal, state, and local revenue.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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