Do Foe Yay pages fit in here? I'm trying to separate the entries on Reborn 2004 into the right ones since the page is in bad shape. Some pairings already have entries on the hoyay pages, which I'll fix later, but I have some questions on the others:
- For the Mukuro/Tsuna entry, Is it Ho Yay/ Homoerotic Subtext or Foe Romantic Subtext if Mukuro started as an enemy, but then joined the group as an Aloof Ally, sometimes saving him but still antagonistic to an extent? They also have a long Ho Yay entry, but I want to put their entries on the right trope.
- For the Julie(really Daemon Spade)/Chrome and Glo Xinia/Chrome, I'm thinking it's Foe Romantic Subtext or Villainous Crush since it is In-Universe but both entries have rape undertones. Does this fit No Yay more or can be put as the latter two?
Edited by cute_heart on Jan 25th 2021 at 1:13:26 AM
Read the letter Cricket!
For the first one, might depend on the moment? Like if the subtext it from when they're enemies, put it under Foe Yay (or Foe Romance Subtext if it's intentional), but if it's more of a friendly moment of tension, stick it under Ho Yay or Homoerotic Subtext. Try to sort it out through context on which category each moment would fit under better if you can.
As for the second, I'd say it could fit under No Yay since it is YMMV, after all. But while it could probably fit under Foe Romance Subtext or Villainous Crush, I wouldn't say to put it in both of those. Foe Romance Subtext is if it's only subtextual, but intentional, and Villainous Crush is if it's textual.
Also, I've got a question about this entry from YMMV.Death Note The Musical:
- Ho Yay: In this iteration Rem is explicitly in love with Misa.
If Misa isn't gay, then Incompatible Orientation, maybe?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.![]()
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No Yay is specifically about fans both seeing the subtext for a (not necessarily homoerotic) pairing and also being squicked out by said subtext. Since the latter examples are, as you describe it, in-universe, you are correct that they should go under one of the appropriate main-page tropes like Foe Romance Subtext or Villainous Crush. A No Yay entry probably isn't necessary unless the work presents the relationship more sympathetically or romantically than fans do.
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There's probably something on the Unrequited Love Tropes index that fits, plus Adaptation Relationship Overhaul since the manga left it far more ambiguous (personally I didn't see it there as anything other than platonic).
Continuing on the Supernatural Wincest cleanup:
- 11.04: After finding out Sam had sex with a woman in the backseat of the Impala the night before, Dean is practically giddy despite (or maybe because?) it happened in his most prized possession. Delete. If anything this seems like the antithesis of Ho Yay.
- Dean: Even put a blanket down. Buddy, classy and thoughtful as always.
- 11.16 "Safe House": A Soul Eater puts victims into a coma and shows them "things they love, parts of their soul in distress" to weaken them. The civilian victim sees her husband and children dead, Bobby sees Sam and Dean, and Dean sees Sam. Even knowing that would be the Soul Eater's trick doesn't stop Dean from looking like his entire world has been blown to pieces before he wills the image away. Delete. That Dean loves Sam is indisputable, but nothing here sounds specifically homoerotic (unless this entry is also arguing that Bobby is also in love with Dean and Sam).
- This also calls back to Dark Side of the Moon. The part of Dean's soul that's in distress in Sam, his soulmate. Delete. Natter.
- How did this episode get mentioned without the final scenes? When Dean regains consciousness and is struggling to get up, Sam basically spoons Dean, wrapping one arm around him and pulling him into his chest to prop Dean up, while frantically muttering reassurances that he's "got" Dean, before finally heaving a sigh of relief and resting his free hand on Dean's head. The scene cuts and it's implied that Sam and Dean stay in that position on the floor for at least a few minutes. Rufus and Bobby's parallel scene after Bobby regains consciousness serves to highlight just how ridiculously grabby the brothers are compared to normal people - Rufus is solicitous and concerned for Bobby, and does help him sit up. But they don't, like, sit there cuddling. Delete or at best trim severely. Mostly natter and parallels wank.
- On top of that, in the car afterwards when Dean tells Sam he saw him dead in his vision, Sam says it's comforting that Dean saw that. Dean has had a strange connection to Amara all season, and Sam frequently expresses insecurity that Dean will become more attached to her than to him. Delete. Not self-evidently homoerotic as opposed to any other kind of strong relationship.
- Directly after the events of Safe House sees Dean's greatest fear realized in 11.17, "Red Meat." While saving a couple from werewolves Sam is shot and mortally wounded. The boyfriend of the woman who has been harmed complains that Sam is slowing them down and that it would be quicker to leave him so that his girlfriend can get medically attention, telling him it's three lives against one. Dean shoves him angrily and tells him they will carry Sam. The episode parallels Corbin's dedication to saving his girlfriend to Dean's dedication to saving Sam. Dean is so shaken by the idea of losing Sam that he almost gets into a fight with a tree and has to bite back panicked tears. Not sure. If the episode itself makes overt parallels between their relationships then sure, but I've come to be wary of most instances of claimed parallels being bullshit.
- When Dean leaves to grab sticks Corbin strangles Sam, sending his body into shock. Dean returns to see Sam dead just as the werewolves descend on their hiding place. When Corbin and Michelle announce in terror that the werewolves are coming back. Dean, grief-stricken, hovers over Sam's dead body and promises him he'll come back for him. Delete. The homoeroticism is not self-evident over more platonic readings.
- After getting Corbin and Michelle to safely to a sheriff, while bleeding and wounded, tries to run back into the woods to get back to Sam's body. The sheriff demands Dean to stay for questioning and tries to prevent him from running. Dean, wild with grief, shoves him and tries to run back to Sam only to be tasered. Delete. See above.
- The most intensely romantic aspect of this episode comes after Dean wakes up in the hospital. Remembering that Sam is dead, he hobbles to the hospital's dispensary and takes a handful of pills so he can barter with a reaper to get Sam's soul back. Maybe? Weak but the last sentence of the quote comes off as mildly homoerotic. Needs rewriting, though.
Billie: It's cute, though. You pretending you're trying to save Sam for the greater good, when we both know you're doing it for you. You can't lose him.
- Sam, meanwhile, has woken up and is trying frantically to get to Dean while still badly wounded. At one point he and Dean manage to reach each other by phone, and they both literally stagger in relief at hearing the other's voice. Delete. The homoeroticism is not self-evident.
- Later after Dean kills Corbin, who has turned into a werewolf, Michelle is heartbroken. Dean tells her she'll be okay, but she disagrees. She tells him "I watched the man I love die. There's no normal after that." Dean looks stricken, remembering how he felt and how drastically he acted after he saw Sam's dead body. Keep. For once, some parallels that have real meat to them.
- When Sam has finally gotten his gunshot wound treated and is released from the hospital, Dean keeps a hand on Sam the entire way to the car. Keep but delete the link. This is self-evident, but I have no idea who the following person is and unless they specifically wrote/directed for that episode, why it would even matter.
- 11.20 "Don't Call Me Shurley" is basically Croatoan Part II: Electric Boogaloo. A dense fog created by Amara overtakes towns and turns the people infected into rabid murderers before they fully succumb and suffocate. While saving a group of people Sam becomes infected by the fog. The citizens beckon Dean to safety but he refuses. Sam, under the fog's influence, accuses Dean of choosing Amara over him, to which Dean flatly denies. When it becomes apparent that Sam will die under the fog's influence, Dean intentionally inhales it so that they can die together. However becomes Amara has imprinted on him, he is immune to it. Keep.
- "I'm not leaving you ever! Keep.
- This is also the episode where the viewers find out that Sam had indeed kept the amulet that Dean had thrown out back in Season 5, and has carried it with him this whole time. Delete. It's already established for plot reasons that the amulet is dear to them, but nothing about this entry makes the homoerotic reading look particularly strong compared to plausible alternatives.
- In the season 11 finale Dean agrees to strap a bomb the force of hundreds of thousands of suns to himself so that he can eliminate Amaara, The Darkness. During his tearful goodbyes to Castiel, Rowena, Chuck, and even Crowley, but when he gets to Sam they can hardly look at one another because they're so overcome with emotion. Keep, as the "chick-flick" reference can carry ambiguously romantic implications.
- Dean: Come on. You know the drill. No chick-flick moments. Come on.Sam: Yeah, you love chick flicks.Dean: Yeah, you're right. I do. Come here
- Dean also leaves Sam with the keys to the Impala. Delete. It's established that it's their family car.
- Dean tells Amara that she never really wanted him, she only wanted Chuck, her brother. Dean compares her need for her brother with his own need for Sam. Delete. Now, if the entry is implying that the series also has subtext for Amara having feelings for Chuck, then it'd be fair game. Otherwise, both this entry and the following quote just emphasizes that the overwhelming takeaway of the bond between the brothers is that for all its intensity it is still strictly platonic/familial.
Dean: Me and Sam, we have had our fair share of fights. More than our share. But no matter how bad it got, we always made it right because we're family. I need him. He needs me. And when everything goes to crap, that's all you've got—family. Now you might be a—an all-powerful being...but I think you're human where it counts. You simply need your brother.
- This has interesting implications as Dean has shown a strange, unwanted desire for Amara throughout the season. At one point she even kisses him. Somehow through that Dean comes to the conclusion that what she truly desires is her brother. Delete. Again, see above. It also took me a long time to understand what this entry was even trying to say, so it's clearly not very self-evident.
- The entirety of season 13 is Sam and Dean playing parents to the nephilim responsibility Jack. Many outlets, including the official Netflix twitter, have called them Jack’s parents. Leaning towards delete, as Castiel is also openly referred to as Jack's father, in what seems to be all three of them coparenting Jack together. Barring more specificity with the examples, there's just as many implications of Dean/Castiel and Sam/Castiel here as there are for Dean/Sam.
- When Sam first sees Dean again in 12x01 after believing him to be dead, he smiles at the sight of Dean and looks like he's about to cry in relief - even though they're both bound up in a cell and Sam had been tortured. It's incredibly emotional considering the circumstances. Keep, I guess.
- In 12.22, as Sam is about to leave to lead the BMOL raid (Dean has to stay back due to an injury), they tearfully hug, with Dean imploring Sam to come back after, and Sam promising that he will. Keep.
- The look of relief on Dean’s face when he finds Sam passed out but still alive in 13.15, “A Most Holy Man” is shockingly intimate. Keep, I guess?
- When the woman Sam is interviewing starts flirting with Sam and touching his hand, Dean GLARES at her for a moment before schooling his features into an obviously-fake smile. Dean doesn't really like people touching Sam. Also keep, I guess. Self-evident enough.
- 13.16: In the Supernatural/Scooby-Doo crossover episode aptly titled "Scoobynatural," Dean proudly shows Sam his "Dean Cave" (or "Fortress of Deanitude") that includes a foosball table and two recliners right next to each other for him and Sam. Delete. It'd have a stronger case if they shared the bed, otherwise this is rather nothing.
- Dean collectively refers to everything in his room as "we" to signify it all belongs to Sam, too. Delete. They're literal family so it makes sense they'd share.
- 13.20., “Unfinished Business ,” has a back-to-back dying devotion monologue by both brothers. Delete. The homoeroticism is not particularly self-evident over other more obvious readings.
- Dean: You remember what happened the last time we had front row tickets to the Lucifer/Michael show? 'Cause I do. You died... and went to Hell. But see, this time, the apocalypse isn't looking for us. We're actually looking for it. I don't care what happens to me. I never really have. But I do care about what happens to my brother.Sam: Dean, we're going to that place, and we're gonna save Jack and Mom. Together. And if something happens, we will deal with it together. And if we die? We'll do that together, too.
- This sentiments are par for the course for Dean, but when they come from Sam you know it’s serious. Delete. Natter.
- In 13.22 "Beat the Devil" Dean was forced to leave Sam behind [[spoiler:in the Apocalypse World). Sam dies (for the sixth time) and comes back, Dean hugs him and tearfully comments that he thought he really lost him. Delete. The homoeroticism is not self-evident relative to other readings.
- Jensen Ackles has stated he has not been quiet about how out of character he believed Dean leaving Sam behind was, calling the characterization a “disservice.” Delete. On top of being actor commentary, nothing about this is comes off as self-evidently homoerotic as opposed to anything else.
- In the season 13 finale "Let the Good Times Roll, Dean says yes to being Michael's vessel. This is after being vehemently against the idea since season four. It's only when Sam is in trouble and he has no other option to save him that Dean finally says. yes. Delete.
- In episode 14.01, Sam is so distraught and obsessed with tracking Dean down that he has a Depression Beard and is implied to be barely eating or sleeping. At one point he tells Cas he'd "do anything" to find Dean. Keep.
- Episode 14.04 is basically the newly-reunited brothers flirting non-stop. At one point, Dean likens a young girl's appearance to Sam's, referring to her "soft features and luxurious hair", and later on suggests that he and Sam wear couple's costumes for next Halloween. Keep.
- In 14.05, Dean is absolutely beaming with pride and support every time Sam interacts with the AU hunters, and is defensive of him when Bobby criticizes him. Moreover, he comments at one point that Sam is only sleeping three hours a night - which is an interesting thing for Dean to know, considering they have separate rooms in different parts of the bunker. Delete. Rather Goggles-y, considering there's other ways of finding out.
- Episodes 14.10 to 14.13, inclusively, are basically wall-to-wall Wincest.
- In 14.10, when Michael has taken over Dean once more, Sam and Cas enter Dean's brain to try to communicate with him only to discover Dean's consciousness is being distracted by a false memory. Sam, who has spent about 97% of his life in Dean's presence, is able to almost instantly identify which of a stream of memories is the "fake" one. Then, when Dean still doesn't realize he's living in a fake scenario, Sam's finally able to snap him back to reality with one word. Delete. This entry shoots itself in the foot by providing an obvious non-romantic explanation for how.
- In 14.11... well, there's a cringey hug, to start with, but the real moment comes at the end of the episode, when Dean finally tells Sam his plans with the M'alak Box. Apart from being upset, Sam is also angry that Dean was going to basically sneak off to kill himself without even telling Sam or saying goodbye, even repeating "me" - reminding Dean and the viewers that he's closer to Dean than anyone else and deserved to know. Dean tearfully responds that Sam was the "last" person he could tell, because he knew he'd never be able to maintain his resolve if Sam tried to talk him out of it. Delete. As mentioned multiple times, it's established they're closer to each other than anything else, but also nothing about having a bond this strong is inherently homoerotic.
- In 14.12, this essentially comes to pass. Sam, after spending the episode trying to hold it together but visibly upset, has an angry and tearful outburst, going so far as to start punching Dean. When Dean stops Sam's punch, Sam suddenly grabs Dean into a hug, looking for all the world like a lost child, asking why Dean "doesn't believe in them" (as in, in his and Sam's ability to find a better, less drastic way to deal with Michael that won't leave Dean in an eternal living death). It's rare to see Sam so unravelled, and one of the only times in the whole series that he lashed out physically at Dean, just because he was so desperate to get through to Dean. Delete. Again, see above. Getting flustered shows he cares, but says nothing of the precise nature of the caring.
- In 14.13, also the series' 300th episode, a misaimed spell brings John back from the dead, leading to a joyous family reunion with the boys and Mary. Throughout the episode, Sam and Dean are paralleled against their parents' relationship, and the domestic aspects of their lives are emphasized. At one point, Dean tells Sam that he wouldn't change their lives, given the chance, because he likes who they both are. The scene then abruptly cuts away to John and Mary holding hands, in an edit that seems almost designed to confuse the viewer. Keep.
- Throughout 14.13, it's clear that John's resurrection is altering how certain events in the show have unfolded - and had John never died, Sam and Dean would have been living separate (and rather depressing) lives. It's strongly implied that Dean agreed to reversing the spell, knowing their father would die again, in part because he didn't want to live in an alternate timeline where he and Sam were apart. Leaning on delete. All this entry shows is that Dean loves his brother more than his father, which the show has provided many reasons for.
- In 14.14, Dean gets knocked out during a fight, and Sam devolves into helpless panic when he can't rouse him, frantically calling for Rowena and Cas. Even back at the bunker, Sam doesn't leave Dean's side, but is so anxious and lost that he doesn't even start cleaning Dean's wounds until Rowena tells him to. Delete. The homoeroticism is not self-evident.
- In 14x15, Sam gets affected by the mind control at Charming Acres, and the only way Cas can snap him out of it is to remind him of Dean. Delete. The homoeroticism is not self-evident above other alternatives.
- Later at the bunker, it comes out that Cas already told Dean that Sam had had a "wife" while he was brainwashed, and Sam's reaction makes it clear he hadn't wanted Dean to know that. After Cas leaves the room, Dean reiterates that Sam had apparently been "really happy" at Charming Acres, clearly feeling a little hurt and insecure. Sam has to remind Dean that none of it was actually real. Keep.
- In 14.17, Sam gets upset when Dean and Mary go to Donatello without him, saying he should be there and that it's not okay. Delete. The homoeroticism is not self-evident.
- Later that same episode, Sam gets murdered by Nick, continually calling to Dean while fighting Nick. When Dean finally gets to Sam, Sam is near death, and his last words are about how Dean always put him first. Once Jack arrives and resurrects Sam, Dean has to turn away to control his emotions. Delete. The homoeroticism is not self-evident.
- In 14x18, after discovering that Jack killed Mary, Dean is enraged at both Jack and at Cas, who he perceives as having withheld important information about Jack that might have prevented Mary's death. The only person Dean will allow near him is Sam (who also took some responsibility for what happened, which Dean summarily dismissed as "Not Sam's Fault"). Delete. The homoeroticism is not self-evident.
- In 14x20, there's an emotional scene where Dean is telling Sam he intends to kill Jack with the Equalizer Gun, which will also lead to his own death. Sam angrily says he can't handle losing Jack and Dean at the same time. Delete. Unless subtext is also present for Sam/Jack, the homoerotic interpretation is not self-evident relative to non-romantic alternatives.
- In 15x03, Sam has to kill Rowena in order to close the rupture into Hell - a pre-ordained fate they'd both tried extremely hard to avoid. When it seems like Sam won't be able to bring himself to do it, Rowena asks him, "Would you let the world die, would you let your brother die, to save me?" Sam tearfully says "No" and stabs her - it's implied that it was mentioning that Dean would die if he didn't kill her that pushed him to do it. Delete. As has been constantly mentioned before, caring about one's brother is not in and of itself inherently homoerotic, no matter how intense, and nothing about this entry bothers to further that particular reading.
- There's also an interesting moment near the end of that episode, where Dean talks to Sam in his room. Sam's bed is made up differently than usual, with two pillows and lamps lit on both sides of his bed - and a shirt that looks much like one of Dean's hanging on a hook in the background. Keep but fix all-white entry issues.
- In 15x04, continuing off the "Did Sam's bed look a little different there?" theme, Sam wakes up abrubtly from a nightmare, and it appears he was sleeping on one side of his bed - with a second pillow on the other side of the bed. Delete. Nothing specifies this in favor of Dean (or any other male character) specifically.
- 15x09 is a bit of a strange example, as it teases a relationship between Sam and Eileen - but in Chuck's future projection, Sam still seems far more emotionally wrapped up in Dean. Eileen dies offscreen in this projection, and while Dean says Sam "has had a death wish ever since", Sam seems mostly devastated when Dean refuses to hunt anymore, tearfully responding they were supposed to go out together. At the end of the projection, Sam and Dean have turned into vampires (which in itself is ship fuel, as vampires in Supernatural mate for life, and it also invites the idea that Sam or Dean either fed from or turned their brother) and are being hunted by their former friends - but reiterate that they'll go out together "like Butch and Sundance." Even more significantly, present-day Sam **prefers** the idea of the two of them dying together as monsters over Chuck's planned ending of them killing each other. Debatable keep but trim Natter. Butch and Sundance have been noted to have strong Ho Yay in some adaptations.
- In 15x13, an AU version of the brothers arrive in the bunker, having escaped their universe before Chuck destroyed it. The AU!brothers come across as prissy and effete, and in response to their universe being destroyed and their father possibly being killed, they... drink beer and **watch porn together** in the bunker while the regular!brothers are gone on a mission (complete with AU!Sam shifting suggestively in his chair). AU!Dean's request to keep the flannels they'd borrowed, and AU!Sam's smarmy comment about how they "drove in" the Impala, are both rife with implication after that. Delete. Just being prissy isn't enough to demonstrate homoeroticism, let alone homoeroticism towards each other. As mentioned elsewhere, watching porn together (especially if it's the kind aimed at heterosexual men) while uncommon isn't necessarily homoerotic either. Together, if anything what this entry suggests is that they're Camp Straight.
Whew! Finally. If nobody has any objections or commentary they want to make about my decisions, I can get started on purging bad examples, then get around back to cleanup on the absolute monstrosities that are the Destiel folders.
Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 6th 2021 at 7:05:01 AM
Oh, forgot to also go through this folder as well:
- Sam and Lucifer. "It had to be you", after some rather intimate moments in bed with the supposed ghost of Jessica. Delete. I can kind of see something here, but it's too ZCE as is.
- The whole Lucifer-is-destined-to-possess-Sam thing had shades of an arranged marriage, with Lucifer doing his best to "court" Sam and trying to convince him that it was his destiny. Brought to its fullest subtext in the finale of Season 5 when Lucifer finally possesses Sam and spends most of the episode trying to make him happy with the arrangement from sparing Dean (which came back to bite him the ass) to giving him revenge against Azazel's cronies who'd been manipulating him his entire life. Really he came off as an older dutiful husband trying to please his young, unhappy bride! Keep.
- Season 7 gets off to a good start Ho Yay wise, what with Hallucination!Lucifer calling Sam things like "bunkmate" and "his little bitch in every sense of the word". It's far beyond subtext now. Keep but move to a main page trope such as Foe Romance Subtext.
- Balthazar more than implied this way back in the middle of Season 6; Michael and Lucifer "hate-banging" Sam, anyone? And even earlier on, Castiel was making some extremely suggestive comments about how traumatized Sam would be as a result of the two pissed-off angels "taking out their frustrations" on him. Keep or move to a main page trope.
- Actually, what Mark Pellegrino has unleashed upon the seventh season is probably the most blatant Ho Yay in the history of the show. Delete. Natter and ZCE.
- At this point, Lucifer isn't actually there. Which means that yeah, it's Sam's mind that generates all of Lucifer's yay-tastic comments. "Aww, he wants to hold your little hand... How sweet." Keep or move to a main page trope, but rewrite to be less gushy.
- And in Season 7, Episode 15 Sam's hallucination of Lucifer returns, this time acting pouty whenever Sam ignored him and squealing like a schoolgirl when Sam finally interacted with him again! Not helped by the Monster of Week's relationship to his former host almost explicitly paralleling Lucifer's relationship to Sam, and they were anything but subtle! Delete. Claims to be a justified instance of parallels wank, but it's so ZCE that it doesn't even matter.
- Not to mention the line about how Hallucination!Lucifer had missed interacting with Sam: "The rapier wit, the wittier rape..." Keep and move to a main page trope such as Rape as Drama.
- Also, season 11 has Sam having a vision where Lucifer tenderly touches his cheek, and episode 9 ends with a horrible cliff-hanger where Sam ends up in a cage with the real Lucifer, and Lucifer's words? "Hey, roomie... Upper bunk? Lower bunk? Or do you wanna share?". Sam's terrified expression says it all. Keep.
- Episode 9 is filled to the brim with Samifer I can see it even though I don't ship it. Delete. Burn this Nattery and ZCE gushing to the ground.
- Sam's conversation with Dean "Lucifer touches me and I feel calm" Keep.
- Lucifer looks so pleased to see Sam when he entered the scene after Crowley and said "My old roomie. Hug it out?" Keep.
- Lucifer's "I need a ride out of here" with suggestive gestures like touching his own lips during the encounter and winking to Sam. Keep.
- Episode 9 is filled to the brim with Samifer I can see it even though I don't ship it. Delete. Burn this Nattery and ZCE gushing to the ground.
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Ah, Adaptation Relationship Overhaul is probably a good fit. I also noticed Rem had an entry under Adaptational Sexuality which I thought was a little strange because I don't think she had any confirmed sexuality in the manga or anime? Honestly, that entry could probably just be swapped with Adaptation Relationship Overhaul and it wouldn't even have to be edited.
Also I appreciate your efforts on the HoYay.Supernatural stuff, especially with how large it is. I'm not familiar with the series so I can't really give in-depth advice on them, but your suggestions make sense to me.
"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."Yeah, a few people shipped Rem/Misa back in the manga days and believed she had romantic feelings for her there, but just as many felt it was platonic or even motherly. Thus Adaptational Sexuality wouldn't fit. Now, a year ago I'd try to attach some kind of other Queer as Tropes to fit it, but since others have ruled that just being LGBT isn't a trope by itself and it needs to have narrative purpose (hence why Bi The Way is gone now), I'm not so sure.
I'll freely admit that I'm not the most knowledgeable on Supernatural either, and most of the information I have on it comes from a few mutuals plus a bit of post-finale popcorn research in the wake of the fiasco that was the last few episodes. But in a sense that lack of information can be helpful in running quality control to determine whether the entries achieve their baseline purpose of communicating the homoeroticism of the interactions to someone like me, who is a relative outsider, as opposed to someone with more attachment and thus stronger bias.
Is there anything on Adaptational Sexuality that bars "unconfirmed sexuality in original, confirmed sexuality in adaptation"?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Bringing this here since I don't know where else to put it. In Animal Crossing New Leaf and beyond, both Isabelle and the Smug villagers are confirmed to be Bisexual and have a crush on both genders of the Mayor and the New Horizons PC, by the creators, and Bi the Way is gone. What LGBTQ+ trope would they fall under then?
Probably none of them. And that's okay. Not everything is a trope.
Isabelle could probably be If It's You, It's Okay or Single-Target Sexuality since she shows no real interest in anyone else beyond thinking K.K. Slider is dreamy.
Edited by Klavice on Jan 25th 2021 at 9:15:47 AM
There's a part of me that kind of thinks "Player Character-Sexual" is really its own trope, but I'm not sure if it's actually a page we could have in practice.
Isabelle is canonically bi??? Heck
...Uh, back on topic, if Isabelle and the Smug villagers being bisexual isn't apparent in game/required official confirmation, it's Word of Gay.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢Taking a swing at The Colbert Report. Most of these are either shipping or Ambiguously Gay or other in-universe tropes, rather than audience reactions.
- Ho Yay:
- Upon NOT having his show called out for intolerance by GLAAD's television report, he concluded that one of his staff members had to be gay... and by process of elimination he determined that it was apparently himself. Surprisingly, he didn't put up much of a fight to this revelation... Move to Ambiguously Bi (the character also has a wife and acts like a Stalker with a Crush to a woman named Charlene).
- And then in a later episode that week
, he delved into a quite detailed fantasy about how to eliminate gay marriage- encouraging his straight male viewers to go to gay bars and become friends with gay men, living in a cottage in California and opening up a dog grooming parlor, and ending up with him getting engaged to an apparently Jewish man named Jonathan, before then leaving him at the altar with the words "NO WAY, I'M NOT GAY!" He then proceeded to cry about it. Also move to Ambiguously Bi or Armored Closet Gay.
- Not to mention the muscular shirtless cameraman
hired from RentBoy.com. He didn't say you could stop dancing! Again, Ambiguously Bi.
- The March Fourth, 2011 episode had an appearance by Jimmy Fallon as a promotion for his and Stephen's flavours of ice cream, Late Night Snack and Americone Dream. After they sang a song about friendship based on ice cream metaphors, it got...unsubtle. Not That There's Anything Wrong with That. They also were both pretty torn up about their 6-month best friendship ending... enough to break out into a duet
. Move to Homoerotic Subtext.
- There is a lot of slash material pairing him with Jon Stewart, for
obvious
reasons.
It's just shipping, and the leaks are a tag (so ZCE), a fanvid, and a dead link. Delete.
- His Parody Sue, Tek Jansen, is often noted to have had hundreds of girlfriends. I see this as a face-value joke about Chick Magnet Wish Fulfillment.
Edited by AlleyOop on Jan 26th 2021 at 11:17:44 AM
It's apparent in canon too as Smug villagers will send you romantic notes, and Isabelle will send you chocolates both regardless of gender, and have a clear crush on them often getting flustered in front of Mr./Ms. Mayor. The smug villagers also flirt with other smug villagers, and Pietro just screams Pride clown. Since as of New Horizons you can sorta be Transgender or a Wholesome Crossdresser it could be Single-Target Sexuality for Isabelle and Anything That Moves for Smug.
Edited by Klavice on Jan 26th 2021 at 12:51:46 PM
I’m thinking about creating a ho yay page for beavis and butt head. I saw on the ymmv page for that show that there were tons of examples and I think those examples should be moved to prevent the ymmv page from feeling cramped.
Troperr means Troper revolution. I'm here to bring revolution to this Site by expanding trope examples wherever such expansion is needed
Uh, we'll have to look them over first. Ho Yay is meant for unintentional subtext.
Bringing this up from HoYay.Futurama:
- "T:The Terrestrial" is an episode that is basically just NOTHING but Ho Yay with most of it being between Fry and Jrrr, who is Lrrr's twelve year old son. First off, Fry hugs Jrrr while riding with him on a bicycle, which disturbs Jrrr a bit and then when Fry is mispronounced dead by the omicronian doctor, Jrrr breaks down crying over Fry but gets overjoyed over realizing that Fry is still alive. Jrrr then asks Fry to continue living with him on Omicron Persei 8 only to be turned down but they touch butts together, which were glowing, only to be pushed aside by a jealous Bender.
As the entry says, Jrr is twelve and Fry is in his mid-twenties / early-thirties. Isn't there a rule barring Ho Yay examples between minors and adults (even alien minors)? Besides, their dynamic in the episode is treated more like Fry is Jrrr's pet (i.e. Jrrr taking Fry to the vet) than anything romantic. There's more Ho Yay between Fry and Bender in the episode.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jan 28th 2021 at 10:44:11 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Bringing up a chunk of examples from HoYay.A3. I plan on having the entire page go through eventually.
- Tsumugi and Tasuku have a lot of it.
- In the title screen after clearing the first part of the main story, whereas everybody looks at the audience/camera, Tsumugi and Tasuku don't. They are looking at each other while holding hands at the back. This feels intentional to me.
- In the play Sympathy for the Angel, where Tsumugi and Tasuku are Michael and Raphael respectively, Michael pulls off a Heroic Sacrifice for the woman he loves. Michael dies, and Raphael cradles his body and mourns. This might be good.
Raphael: "Now I've lost not only my love, but my dearest friend."- Tsumugi [Sympathy for the Angel]: Tasuku admitted that he was caught off-guard when Kazu and Izumi announced that they think Tsumugi has a high-schooler for a girlfriend, so he decided to keep Tsumugi's job as a Private Tutor secret from everybody to cause a bit of a fuss instead of clearing things up. His reason? Because he was afraid this "girlfriend" would take away time Tsumugi would otherwise have for acting with Tasuku, and wanted to get back at Tsumugi for the surprise. I'm not sure. Maybe this is OK?
- When Tsumugi tells Tasuku that he's getting married as an April Fool's joke, Tasuku goes into a state of shock and disbelief rather than anything congratulatory. Again, may be OK, but I'm not entirely sure.
- Tsumugi [Sunny Garden]: When Tsumugi fell sick, Tasuku gave Tsumugi a Bridal Carry and said that he's used to it. This may be OK.
- Homare [Poetic Afternoon]: Kazu asks if Tsumugi and Tasuku are Winter Troupe's mom and dad. Neither Tsumugi nor Tasuku refutes it; instead, Tasuku just goes on to say that he doesn't recall having a son like Homare. Again, might be OK.
- Masumi's birthday line for Tsumugi. He doesn't even say happy birthday, he just immediately says that Tsumugi has Tasuku, while he only has Izumi. I'm leaning towards this being intentional.
- Act 9 has Azuma saying that both Tsumugi and Tasuku seem to have an intense unrequited love and that they are cute when they show it. Azuma means acting but it takes some time for Tsumugi to figure it out. This is definitely deliberate.
- In the anime, Tsumugi ran off after changing up his acting style and hurting their show quality. Tasuku tried to find him so that they could talk, but Tsumugi wasn't in the dorm. Tasuku picked up an umbrella and went out to find him in the snowy night. When he finally found Tsumugi, who was partially covered in snow, he held the umbrella over his head and began saying about how much he loved his acting, something Tasuku wanted but never managed to say after Tsumugi failed the God Troupe audition. Leaning towards this being OK.
Edited by GoldenCityBird on Jan 29th 2021 at 10:34:00 AM
TRS Wick Cleaning

I went ahead and did some cleanup on the ho yay pages for time squad, adventure time, and my gym partner’s a monkey. What I did was removed the examples showing characters behaving stereotypically alone and removing some fan wank and natter and removed a link that does not work anymore
Troperr means Troper revolution. I'm here to bring revolution to this Site by expanding trope examples wherever such expansion is needed